Posts by dango123

Quote from Wheresthedug

They were added to the Cabinet block recently after prolonged requests by some users who didn’t want to have to use an FX slot for a studio EQ but also wanted control on a rig by rig basis as they found the global setting wasn’t flexible enough for their needs.

Thanks, great to have additional context. So what would happen, for example, if the Output section has Hi Cut set at 7500hz and the cabinet section says it’s 10000hz - does the Cab setting at 7500hz fully override the setting in the Output section?

Thanks!

Dango.

Thanks all for the feedback, appreciate it!

Sadly, I'm still a little confused - if the hi and low cut controls are simultaneously active in the Cabinet and Output sections, what happens if they conflict with one another (e.g., Cab has high cut set to 10K, and Output has high cut set to 7K?) - does one override the other? If so, what is the intended precedence?

Thanks again,

Dango

I picked up a Kone recently (really liking it so far) and started experimenting with the Output section settings on my powered toaster, which have been very useful at fine tuning my sounds. However I discovered the same set of hi/low cut settings in the both the Output and Cabinet sections - this is a bit confusing to me. Both sets of controls seem to be active, but I’d expect that they would serve the same purpose (since shaping EQ on the Cabinet is effectively also shaping EQ on the Output. For example, if I set the high cut at 5700K on the Cabinet, what is the purpose of having a higher/lower setting on the Output section?

Can someone pls explain how are these settings are supposed to work together?

I did check the manual, and sadly could not find anything on this topic.

Thanks in advance for any help you can send my way!

Hi - I just posted this in the FB forum but thought I’d post here as well to see if this was experienced by other users.

I’ve noticed an odd looper behavior. There are 2 modes in the system menu to position loops, “input” and “output” - as I understand it, “input” captures the loop at the beginning of the signal chain, so changing profiles and effects fully impact the recorded loop. “Output” captures the loop after all the effects, amps, cabs, etc, so changing profiles and effects should NOT impact the recorded loop.

I’ve set the loop position to “output” but the sound of the loop is definitely being impacted by changing profile presets while the loop is playing. As I understand it, this should not be happening… but it clearly is.

I don’t use the looper often but I don’t remember this odd behavior - wondering if it somehow crept in to a recent firmware release? Note that I’m running the latest update.

I also just started using Kemper Kone and imprints, so I wonder if this may somehow be causing what I’m experiencing?

Would love to know if anyone has hit this issue before, and if so, how you corrected it.

Thanks!

Hi - I installed version 10.0, and am very excited to experiment with the new liquid profile functionality. I currently use the mono monitor output as I have a powered toaster that uses that signal routing (i.e., the red 1/4" jack on the back, connected directly to a guitar cab); when I picked a profile, and then applied a Liquid Profiling amp other than generic... nothing seems to happen through my monitoring speaker - sounds exactly the same. I've tried changing the EQ settings on the previous parameter page (which does seem to change based on LP amp selected), but there is no impact on the sound.

I looked at the updated manual and didn't see any discussion of which outputs are impacted by liquid profiling - is it supposed to impact all outputs, or specifically the XLR/main outputs?

Of course I could be missing something obvious (or not obvious!) - but would love to get the group's feedback to see what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks!
Dango

Kemper gate is totally fine, and I use it all the time with generally great results. Having said that, the TC Electronics Sentry pedal is by far the best gate I've used, as it is multi band (i.e., you can set one of the gate points at 60hz to kill hum, while setting different gating parameters for other frequencies. Works incredibly well (and something Kemper should look to implement - it belongs in the Toaster!).

Quote from markvs

I'm not saying they should sound exactly the same. That's near to impossible and also not what happens with traditional equipment.

But, as an example, I have found a P12Q IR that behaves very closely to the imprint and have found that it gives much consistency between stage and FOH. They're not the same, but the P12Q peculiarities really come through.

I'm just saying it could spare some work to have such an IR (or a few choices per imprint) at the ready that reflect the imprint choices.

I totally get what you are saying.

The "amp in the room" concept is great... but if the imprints create a sound on stage (e.g., Jensen P12R) that isn't matched to what is sent to FOH (mic'd up Jensen P12R), the player may not have a reasonable idea of what the audience is hearing. If the imprints are not reflective of what is going to the house, I'd rather use a house monitor; at least that's coming from the same source as the PA.

In effect, the imprints give you the flexibility to create an "amp in the room" sound that is not full linked to the actual sound going back to the house (which, at least to me, is counterintuitive).

Don't get me wrong, I think it's awesome that Kemper is adding cool features like the imprints (and I know some users were asking for it) - but I also understand the problems that markvs is noting here.

Peace out,

Dango

Another idea - would be great to open up the platform to 3rd party development. Let others build more intuitive editor GUI's, add their own effects algorithms, etc. That's sort of already in place with regards to creating profiles and sharing with others, but would be great to widen the developer pool for future features. May not be possible given the proprietary techniques driving the system (and level of complexity in the existing code base), but could be an interesting way forward. Of course there would have to be a way to QA these updates, so that garbage doesn't find its way into the system (think Apple AppStore workflow, although that has its "issues" as well )

Would also love an arpeggiator (like the H9 has). Have I mentioned sweetened tunings?

But again - no knocks whatsoever re: current capabilities and rollout strategies - Kemper has done so much for this product and user community, if it stays as is into the future, I don't have any complaints.

Quote from Wheresthedug

I think you are correct. It is unique to you.

The whole Kemper workflow is based around getting a finished FOH or Recorded sound from the main outs. Once you are happy with this, you are free to adjust your monitor sound any way you wish. Starting from the monitor out is completely backward to front. Start with the sound you want the audience to hear then sort you monitors to suit your own needs.

Perhaps, but I find it hard to believe that my use case is so unique. Seems that the powered toaster/rack was created to allow people to use Kemper as a guitar amp, into a guitar cab. That is how I (and several friends/collaborators) use it 95% of the time. I would suspect that many people don't have a PA or studio set up at home to demo sounds from the audience/engineer's perspective. I create sounds that sound good thru the guitar cab; I just want a more reliable way to get those tones back into the XLR outs.

But as i've said... all good! Thanks!

Quote from cmbrowns

For me, I'd pick rigs that I think sound good for FOH, then worry about tweaking a monitor mix for myself from that point.

The thing is, someone (like me) using the Kemper primarily as a guitar amp (e.g., powered toaster) doesn't know what the FOH sounds like because we are not listening thru a PA or console - all we hear are the sounds going to the guitar cab/speaker via the powered monitor out.

So when I pick sounds, it's not because they sound good for FOH, it's because they sound good thru the guitar cab sitting in front of me. I only hear the FOH speaker when I'm at the gig, with a PA to play thru - and then it's very hard to quickly tweak profiles to sound good thru the house (although that's basically what I've done over the last 3 years of gigging with Kemper, and I'm at the point where it sounds pretty darn good thru the house AND the monitor mix). Hopefully this clarifies where i'm coming from on this point.

I recently went to a recording session and used some of my patches that everyone really dug thru the 1x12 cab in the room... but those sounds didn't work nearly as well when I went direct to the board via XLR. That's the problem I'd like to solve. Having the imprints on the monitor out further complicates this situation, since it takes me further away from what is actually going to the XLR outs.

Perhaps the issue I'm describing is unique to me, but I'd be surprised if it is. Any one else experiencing this?

Thanks!

Quote from Ruefus

The amp in the room sound is what’s missing.

You cannot get that without the imprints mated to the Kone speaker.

The problem is that the Kemper can separate the amp from the cab when Profiling. What it can’t do is remove the mic from the Cab equation.

Thanks but that’s not the issue I’m raising - if you use imprints for the in the room effect, that’s great. But once you’ve made that choice, the speaker selection should also be available as an automatic option in the Cab section IMO.

Btw, I rarely use the imprints, and think the Kemper with cab monitor off sound like an authentic amp in the room through a regular guitar cab. Many of the demo-style videos I’ve seen online testing this feature would seem to agree with this perspective. But again, all good

Quote from cmbrowns

To find a Kemper cab you can search in Rig Manager for EVM12L. There are quite a few rigs that come up as using this speaker. You can save the cabinet from any of those to try in your rigs while still using the EVM12L imprint for your monitor. Or you could look around for and IR based on that speaker that you could then import as a cabinet.

Beyond that, it's pretty much trial and error to find one that you like the sound of through FOH.

sure, you can do that in rig mgr… but if I already picked the EVM imprint, it would be helpful if the profiler had an option to coordinate that with the cab profile automatically so I don’t have to do double the work. All good.

Quote from Kellerblues

Well Dango, looks like you want the KPA to work the opposite way around as it is supposed to be (tweak your tones for FOH and then find an Imprint that work for you on stage). I understand why. I believe the best would be if the KPA could automatically generate imprints from the profiles.

that’s exactly what I mean, thx! If you are using Kemper as a guitar amp primarily, you are using the monitor section, not the FOH mains mix. So you would tweak the monitor mix first, and then want that replicated in the house mix. Also agree that the imprints should be tied to the cab component if the profiles in some way. good stuff!

Quote from Ruefus

^ This

(Makin’ my life easy!!!🤣

Good discussion, and appreciate the feedback. I think it's great that Kemper is introducing these cool new features in response to suggestions from the user community.

I think I'm coming at this from a different angle than you guys are. I start with the monitored sounds, to get a tone I like, and then I want that moved to the mains/FOH system. So if you want to use the Kone imprints, that's part of the sound I'm trying to craft to begin with. To me, it would be logical that this tone would then be available to the house mix (with mic sim added of course) - so if I put together a Deluxe Reverb with Jensen imprint (or celestion green or one of the other 16 options) at the monitoring level, I should be able to get that combination (i.e, the "in the room" sound but with a mic on it) going to the house. Of course the house sound will not be exactly like the "in the room" sound going to the monitor- that's a given, and part of any live/PA situation - but I'd still expect the PA to be a mic'd representation of the amp that is sitting in front of me on stage.

so I don't want the "Kone to sound like FOH"... I want the FOH to sound like the Kone... with a mic in front of it

At the moment (unless I'm missing something, which is certainly possible), the 16 imprint tones are not available to the cab simulation section that goes to the house - they are independent areas of the profile. So I can come up with a great tone at the monitoring level (with say the EVM12L), but not find that exact option within the Cab settings that go to the house. Hopefully this makes sense - but if not, all good - not looking to create controversy with these thoughts - if there's disagreement on this point, all good, we can leave it here

Peace out,

Dango

Quote from Ruefus

There is a misconception here.

The reality is that no matter what you do - what you hear on stage is *never, ever* what the audience hears. You can't tune the FOH sound using your monitor and get good results in the room. Even if you're getting the same signal as the main outs. Why? Because they don't sound the same.

FOH speakers are never the same as what you monitor with. Even if its the house system. The location in the room, proximity to the speaker.......they sound similar but never exact.

The Kone provides you with the amp-in-the-room sound.

The Kone and imprints remove the microphone from the equation. That is a different sound - and what anyone using a traditional tube/valve amp hears on stage. It is a more immediate and (at least to me) inspiring sound. Every Cab or IR has some of its own inherent 'room' sound. You can hear it with Mod/Delay/Verb disabled. Its subtle, but also significant. You're hearing the amp and speaker - through a mic (or mics).

This is not what the amp and speaker sound like on their own. To me, this is a key advantage over other digital amps. Others claim to accomplish the same thing....but with very mixed results. The Kone and imprints aren't perfect. But they're *really, really* good and give you the benefit of picking a multitude of speaker types on a per-rig basis if you choose.

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I get your point - but if I make a specific choice to have the tone imprint of a Jensen in the monitor, you would think that the Kemper would be attempting to push that same speaker selection to the house mains as well.

Look at it this way - If I play a venue with my Deluxe Reverb w/Jensen mic'd up, I expect the house system to sound like my Deluxe Reverb/jensen with a mic in front of it - not a Deluxe Reverb going thru a 4x12 with a mic in front of it - that's all I'm trying to say. If I'm using a Kone Imprint, you would think the same imprints would be available and connected to the Cab Sim section which goes to the house. As is, you may have a radically different tone going to the house... and you may not even know it, since your reference point is the monitor out. I ran into this problem early on when I first started using Kemper; once I became aware of it, I was able to make appropriate adjustments, but it was very confusing at first, and I wouldn't be surprised if others are confused by this as well. But all good, and different strokes for different folks... if it's working for you, that's great, and we are all team Kemper here Have a great weekend!

Quote from JEverly

These types of post make me scratch my head a bit. What does everyone think needs to be in this unit? I can tell you from being in both the Kemper and Fractal ecosystems, the Kemper had far less issues than the Fractal and it just works. They are on version 3 of the firmware for the FM9 and there are still things that don't work like they are supposed to. They are still trying to get things from the Axe III ported and working for the FM9.

I like that my Kemper works every time I plug into it and I don't run into any software issues. For my uses I don't feel like anything is missing. I also look at the Kemper I have as a solution to replace my amp and pedalboard that is more than capable of doing that for playing live. I suppose that people that only use theirs for recording may think they need something more. I think Fractal has perpetuated this thought that all of these devices need to have constant updates in software and hardware. I think that is where the comments come from about the Kemper being outdated. It is far from outdated. It keeps up with anything on the market and is used by many touring pro musicians.

Interesting post - I'm not an FM9 user, and have never logged time with AxeFX, but as you experienced, Kemper just works for me, both live and in studio settings - it's a fantastic grab and go solution. I've done some session work that produced (IMO) totally realistic results that you would never have guessed came out of a digital box. And it feels more like a real amp then any other platform I've tried so far (although clearly I've missed a few!). I have no desire to road test the FM9 or QC, since I have limited personal bandwidth, and Kemper does what it's supposed to do, extremely well.

That's not to say I don't have a wish list

- sweetened tunings !!!!!!

- more control over min/max values for the leslie simulator

- Better synchronization between the speaker imprints available thru monitoring, and what goes to the house (this is a very unintuitive area within Kemper - you can make monitor out sound totally different than the main outs... what's the point of that? Don't most people want to accurately monitor what the rest of the audience is hearing? Perhaps I'm missing something but this is a very confusing part of the platform... Why would I model a jensen in the monitor out, and then send a celestion 4x12 cab model to the PA?)

Other bells/whistles like multiple amps in left/right, blah blah blah - those are less meaningful to me - who actually does those things in reality? When I played out with my deluxe reverb, it was a simple, glorious MONO setup - like every other player around me. Don't see the real need for these types of uber-features that everyone is excited about on QC and Axe products. But that's just me I guess

Best regards from a generally happy Kemper user

- Dango

Check out the Katzenbach Marshall profiles, they are not expensive and sound GREAT IMO. Their site has a handful of freebies to try as well.

Also - I may have missed it but not sure if you are having issues with the monitoring path (i.e., going to a local guitar cab) or the PA path (out to the house). I've found that the PA part takes some tweaking of the XLR output level to really optimize the overall sound - when I first started playing thru the PA with Kemper, I didn't think it felt right; after playing with levels over time, it made a very big and positive difference IMO.

I play through a crappy open back 1x12, hardly a 4x12 (I do use a 1936 2x12 occasionally) - but it sounds absolutely great - my Marshall preferences lean in the Jimmy Page to EVH territory - it does that extremely well IMO. If you listened to a real amp and Kemper side by side in the house, you would never know the difference. Through the guitar cab, I also think it sounds great, but it did take a little tweaking to get there. Hope you find what you're looking for!

Wouldn't be surprised if new hardware is in the future - but I'm not missing anything major at the moment. My wish list is less about the basic tones, and more about features on the fringes. Such as:

- better tuner options (sweetened tunings anyone?)

- more control over the leslie effects (like setting the max and min values, which I don't believe you can do at the moment)

- synth style patches (I'll take mono... but poly is even better )

- switchable mono/stereo power amp internally (why they simply bridged a 600 watt amp to mono is a point of confusion for me)

- better remote control (i.e., wifi connect) options for the editor (which is missing in the Toaster, but addressed on the Stage)

I hear people asking for things like multi-amps going left right, "better" effects, etc. For myself, as a gigging and occasional session guitarist, I don't need those capabilities, and never understood why it was so important to others... but that's just me I guess. I think Kemper 1.0 sounds fantastic for what I do. Is FM9 or QC "better?" At this point, I don't need to pursue that line of questioning. I'm sure I could work with any of them, but Kemper, out of the box, just worked for me, more so than other "amp simulator" solutions I've used in the past. Oh, and I've used just about all of them (like most of you ).

and now for the obligatory "ymmv" -

Peace Out,

Dango

FYI - saw Pat last night in Great Barrington MA - one of MANY shows of his that I've seen over the years.

Sounded, well, just like Pat - Amazing! The archtop tones were big sounding; the guitar side of the Roland GR303 (or is it an 808?) - sounded great as well and sat perfectly well in the mix. Overall house mix was quite good and balanced as well.

Went up to the stage afterwards and can confirm that his rack has the Kemper featured prominently at the top... and really not much else in there.

Score 1 more for Kemper Go team!

Thanks - I'm using the Kemper Footswitch and still experience the aforementioned lags when changing profiles in performance mode, FYI.