Recording with Kemper

Have you adjusted the Reamp sense parameter to adjust the level of the direct recording signal when you send it back into the Profiler for reamping?

Yeah, I remember HELL-G saying once that one ought to set it to the "opposite" value of Clean Sense, Paul.

IOW, if CS = -3, RS = +3 etc.

My post was pretty much a quote of a recent G-String post.

If a recorded track is too quiet to drive the KPA like the original guitar, turning down the clean sense when turning up the reamp sense seems counterproductive to me.

Besides, @andyg_prs is working with Gain sounds - based on his mention of Distortion Sense.

Quote from paults

If a recorded track is too quiet to drive the KPA like the original guitar, turning down the clean sense when turning up the reamp sense seems counterproductive to me.

Indeed, Paul, but I don't think HG implied that one should touch the CS setting.

It sounded to me like he meant to base the RS value on whatever the Rig's CS setting is, "polarity-reversed".

If a guitar track is recorded at the ideal level for the KPA, that sounds like great advice.

It's not something I've experimented with yet, Paul; I was only paraphrasing HELL-G, but if you say it sounds like great advice, I'll be sure to remember it when I finally get to recording (reamping will be a big part of it, no doubt).

I'm guessing that setting your input level on the KPA correctly and using the DI-through feature to record and play back at unity gain should yield "perfect" results... for any given Rig. If one then changes Rigs, HELL-G's suggestion would come into play, no?

Yes, that would be my thought, too. If record and playback are at unity gain, then, Reamp Sense would be set to the inverse of the input sense setting used when the original track was recorded.

Brilliant. Sounds like a plan, Paul.

All along I've been thinking that the OP's track-output level (and therefore interface-out level) probably doesn't match what the Kemper, assuming that's what he used to generate the DI signal, issued in the first place.

To the OP:
Did you add or remove gain from the DI signal when you recorded and played it back, whether at the interface-input or track-playback stage?

Just a thought but could it have something to do with pure cab?

Stumbled upon this summary in the manual:

For correct leveling and reproduction of a distorted Rig with a reamped instrument, two level settings must be performed: the absolute reamp level at the recording device and the amount of distortion by “Reamp Sens”. For clean-sounding Rigs, only the absolute reamp level is necessary.

So, as Paul and I alluded to, one must first set the level going to the KPA (duh). The same methodology applies as when adjusting it for your guitar - occasionally-yellow is very-good.

This is all hence my question to the OP earlier - is that level coming into the KPA the same as it was going out of it? That's the critical thing IMHO; everything should flow easily from there.

EDIT:
You posted whilst I was typing, Shawn. Could be, but obviously only if he's switched it on or off from the state it was in originally.

True, Nicky... just putting it out there and trying to help.

No offense but are you using a 2i2 or 6i6 because I don't think they made a 2i6? Recording/reamping with SPIDF? Isn't it auto leveled that way? Is pad engaged or perhaps using line level instead of instrument in mix control by accident? I know you said everything is correct but you know, something may have been overlooked or pressed by mistake?

Phew! I'll give this a go, Andy, but have to run 'til tomorrow, so I'll not be able to respond 'til then:

Quote from andyg_prs

First - when I try to record the output of my Kemper the same high gain rig seems to render in a first last powerful / impactful way than that rig works live. Is that a typical thing? Eg I play loud live....so do I need a tonne more gain to mimic that at recording levels.

The high-gain recording probably sounds "more impactful" 'cause it's being heard through headphones / studio monitors and not through your live monitoring. Different setup = different results. Gain doesn't equal loud, of course, and you may even find there's more articulation evident with slightly-lower gain levels for the recorded signal. Tends to clutter up a mix less this way too. Something to bear in mind.

Quote from andyg_prs

Second, when re-amping, I'm struggling to get enough signal into the Kemper. When I recorded originally I used a 2i2, I used the halo feature on the input and the peak control on Reaper to get the maximum acceptable signal into Reaper without spiking. This was done last August for our album but there have been delays!

Read on about the struggle I highlighted, but for one thing, I don't feel it's a good idea to maximise recording levels... ever... for any instrument. I and others have said plenty about this here on the forum, including just last week when I banged on about it quite a bit.

Quote from andyg_prs

Exactly what output should I have used for the raw guitar to be used subsequently for re-amping and how would I know the output levels were appropriate?

I covered this a few posts ago. If you set your guitar's input level to the Kemper correctly, (occasionally into the "yellow"), the DI signal that's passed through the unit will be correct 'cause it'll reflect what you're sending to the Rig when you're playing it "live".

Quote from andyg_prs

When I tried re-amping, I tried putting that signal from the DAW (this time at my friend's house and he was using Logic) through both the front of the Kemper and through the alternative input. The alternative input sounded very weedy regardless of using various settings and playing with the clean sense, distortion sense and reamp sense.

I had better (but not fantastic) results through the front input of the Kemper but again using the clean sense, distortion sense or reamp sense didn't help as much as would have liked.

This is probably because, as I'll allude to shortly, the level you're sending from the interface is way down. The front input probably sounded much-better 'cause this low-level signal you were sending was much-closer to a guitar's PU-output level (super-low) than the line-level signal the reamp input expects and is "designed" for.

Quote from andyg_prs

At one point the reamp sense didn't seem to be operational, was greyed out with a padlock symbol, but I can't remember exactly how I got around it....the set up is all still at my friend's house.

I haven't reamped yet myself, but I'm guessing that this must've been whilst you were using the front input. The software wouldn't have allowed any adjustments of the reamp-input's level for obvious reasons (you can't use both at the same time).

Quote from andyg_prs

The output (main output) of that went into the input of the Focusrite set at "line". I assume that is correct as instrument level is for a non-amplified instrument, but here we had been through the Kemper?

Correct! Hey, at least you know you got something right, right?

Quote from andyg_prs

I was using a Focusrite 2i4 - sorry about that mistake. The standard jack (TS?) outputs 1 and 2 were used for the monitoring speakers. The phono outputs 3 and 4 went to a small stereo jack with a converter to quarter inch that went into the Kemper.

Unless I'm missing something obvious (never used a Focusrite interface, so it's possible), this is a huge mistake and would explain so much. Phono outputs are traditionally known as consumer-level or "-10dB" in flavour. Think cassette decks, CD players and so on. The phono inputs on the interface would have been included with connecting such things in mind. The four basic levels we (as guitarists, otherwise there are three) deal most with in audio, from lowest to highest, are guitar (lowest), mic (a little higher, but still very-low), consumer (the one I described that I suspect you're using), and line (highest).

Line level is roughly 14dB higher than consumer, so there's 14dB you're missing out on with your reamp signal right there... if my assumptions are correct.

So, first point of call would be to try sending the DI signal out of one of the 1/4" jacks on the interface into the reamp input on the KPA and see what happens then. Adjust the Reamp Sens to be the "inverted" version of whatever the Clean Sense parameter is set at in the Rig you're using - Clean Sens at -4 = Reamp Sense at +4, for example, and that should be about all you need to do. It'll get you into the ballpark at the very least, I'm guessing.

I'd suggest making a short recording of your KPA's DI-out signal, with no volume adjustments on the interface (covered this in an earlier post) or in the DAW, and with the guitar-input levels on the KPA set as described earlier, to see how loud it is when played back in Reaper. This'll be your reference. Try to set the old DI track to play back as similarly as possible to this. Future recordings won't necessitate this step as long as you've set the KPA's input correctly for your guitar. IOW, your guitar's level both hitting any selected Rig as well as appearing at the DI out is gonna be consistent.

Between recording the DI signal at the original level, and sending that back out to the KPA via a 1/4 jack (line level) without fiddling with the volume, you should experience a massive improvement. Unless of course I've got this completely-wrong!

OK, HTH, Andy, and I'll check back in tomorrow morning (dinner time now).

If you can, try an interface with SPIDF as it takes all the guesswork out of the equation.

Proper gain staging isn’t “guesswork” and taking the signal in digitally doesn’t guarantee that it’s at an appropriate level.

When people say ‘it sounds smaller when I try to record it’ my FIRST suspicion is their monitoring, not the recording chain.