Atomic CLR vs.Yamaha DXR 10

    Hi all!
    Just made a little shootout to compare the Atomic CLR vs. the Yamaha DXR 10.
    I tried to be as objective as possible, using some guitar loops and hifi material and feeding the signal alternately (on the fly) to either the Atomic or the Yamaha to give the listeners an immediate perspective how the sound between the two differs.
    I think it's pretty evident that we have a clear winner here (the Atomic), still the Yamaha is awesome.
    I apologize for looking slightly exhausted, it was a very very hot day in Hamburg and already nearly 30° in the morning... :)
    I used only one profile (a Morgan AC 30 with different kinds of boosting) for noodling with the loops (that I made myself).
    The hifi material is my own original music.
    Filming was done with a Zoom Q3HD.


    Looking forward to some feedback!




    EDIT: So, for everybody: VIDEO IS REMOVED FOR THE MOMENT AS I WANT TO RTEFINE THE TESTING PROCEDURE!
    AGAIN EDIT: As I feel the first video is not that different from the second, and certainly not 'wrong', I've put them up both now.
    Sorry for the redundancy, but it was interesting nonetheless.


    First video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXBrlMqdh2c
    Second video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvUv0o_GKig

    Grat shoutout Ingolf. :thumbup:


    I just bought the Yammy DXR12 today and cant wait to hear it later this week.
    Thanks to you and other in this grate forum I could finaly make up my mind and switch from my mesa 2:90 and 4x12 cab
    I'm not selling my mesa gear before i have made my own shoutout with the Yamaha
    And hopefully I doun't be disapointed.


    I like your comitment to help out peuple on this forum, its grate :)

    As n tube


    Wooo good Demo! Thanks !
    really A/B in the same conditions!
    when You switch from Yamaha to Atomic It seems to pass from ''recorded Live @__'' to 'Studio Version ''.. I hope to be understood..
    more Studio, Less Live Sound!

    In your video, the Yamaha appears to have much more signal at approximately 315hz than the Atomic (I used the the Real Time Analyzer in the free JL Audio iPhone app)


    If Yamaha's frequency response charts are accurate, the Atomic may have an EQ cut between 250hz and 500hz.


    (I usually want those frequencies turned down in vocal monitors, because they sound "muddy" to me. Perhaps that is why the Atomic has a "Clear" sound)


    Has anyone seen a CLR frequency response chart? Has anyone run Pink Noise through one, to see the frequency response?


    What D-Contour setting did you use for the Yamaha?


    Yamaha's frequency charts DXR DSR Brochure show a very slight boost below 500hz when using the "D-Contour = Monitor" setting.


    The Charts show a cut from around 180hz to almost 500hz when D-Contour is turned Off. Does that make the midrange sound more like the Atomic? Does the bass sound more like the Atomic that way? (Yamaha shows a big boost at 80hz when it is turned Off)


    But, when it is used as a Front of House speaker, the Yamaha frequency chart shows a boost like in the sound of the video. That suggests to me the microphone position may have been off-axis enough to get mostly the 12" speaker and bass ports.


    If the Yamaha was on the right (with the horn closer to the microphone) would it still sound that way in the microphone? If that big sticker was taken off of the grille, would the additional high end even out the sound of the Yamaha?

    Hi Paul!
    Thanks for your very constructive feedback. All good questions! :thumbup:


    Quote from paults

    In your video, the Yamaha appears to have much more signal at approximately 315hz than the Atomic (I used the the Real Time Analyzer in the free JL Audio iPhone app)
    If Yamaha's frequency response charts are accurate, the Atomic may have an EQ cut between 250hz and 500hz.
    (I usually want those frequencies turned down in vocal monitors, because they sound "muddy" to me. Perhaps that is why the Atomic has a "Clear" sound)


    Yes, this is what gives the impression of some boxiness/muddiness in the vid, and I heard it the same way.



    Quote from paults


    Has anyone seen a CLR frequency response chart? Has anyone run Pink Noise through one, to see the frequency response?


    No i haven't.


    Quote from paults


    What D-Contour setting did you use for the Yamaha?


    That's the best remark! I actually had intended to switch DSP completely off for this test but forgot to do it. I used the 'monitor' setting.


    Quote from paults


    Yamaha's frequency charts DXR DSR Brochure show a very slight boost below 500hz when using the "D-Contour = Monitor" setting.
    The Charts show a cut from around 180hz to almost 500hz when D-Contour is turned Off. Does that make the midrange sound more like the Atomic? Does the bass sound more like the Atomic that way? (Yamaha shows a big boost at 80hz when it is turned Off)


    BOOM! I THINK I SHOULD PULL THE VID FOR NOW AND REPEAT MY TEST PROCEDURE WITH THE DSP OF THE YAMAHA COMPLETELY SWITCHED OFF, as it may add a kind of 'loudness'/'mid boost' that brings it in disadvantage to the Atomic. Thanks for that remark! Excellent!


    Quote from paults


    But, when it is used as a Front of House speaker, the Yamaha frequency chart shows a boost like in the sound of the video. That suggests to me the microphone position may have been off-axis enough to get mostly the 12" speaker and bass ports.


    No, the mic was in a good triangle position, but I will try to refine positioning when I redo the test.

    Quote from paults

    If that big sticker was taken off of the grille, would the additional high end even out the sound of the Yamaha?


    Hehe, certainly not, but I will remove that as well! :)


    Thank you again, Paul, you're a smart guy! :thumbup:
    So, for everybody: VIDEO IS REMOVED FOR THE MOMENT AS I WANT TO REFINE THE TESTING PROCEDURE! Will redo this later today.... :)

    Ingolf,


    Thank you for posting the video (and thanks for the compliments.)


    I'm really close to buying a small monitor to use at some gigs, and was surprised to hear such a difference between the Yamaha and the Atomic.


    Does the Atomic sound flat to you ( like a studio monitor), or does it sound "better than flat" (with the low mids reduced, and some highs added- like a pair of closed back headphones, or like a home audio system speaker)?


    Are your studio monitors made by Yamaha? (I saw the white speaker cones in the background). Does the Atomic have less low midrange than the studio monitors?

    Quote from paults


    Does the Atomic sound flat to you ( like a studio monitor), or does it sound "better than flat" (with the low mids reduced, and some highs added- like a pair of closed back headphones, or like a home audio system speaker)?


    Yes, they do sound flat (and not hyped 'better than flat'). This is the first effort from Atomic- amplifiers that completely delivers in this regard IMO. I had owned the first two amps (with the templates) and also the Atomic FR and they were all coloring in a way and far away from being really neutral and flat.


    Quote from paults


    Are your studio monitors made by Yamaha? (I saw the white speaker cones in the background). Does the Atomic have less low midrange than the studio monitors?

    These are Yamaha HS80M's. They are, as you know are quasi standard in budget studios and while they may not be the flattest thing on earth, they are decent and I like to mix on them because I know them.
    The Atomic CLR doesn't have less low midrange IMO.


    I have now redone the testing procedure and doing some editing ATM. Will upload this in a short while.

    OK, so now I have finished redoing the whole procedure, only with the DSP on the Yamaha DXR 10 switched off.


    Findings: The midrange heaviness of the Yamaha DXR 10 against the Atomic CLR is not so prominent any more, but there's now a bass boost instead, so all in all, I cannot say that switching off the DSP brings more fidelity to the DXR 10.


    That's my overall conclusion: That the Atomic CLR indeed has a clarity and fidelity to the signal that I haven't yet heard in another FRFR speaker.


    Still the Yamaha DXR 10 with its prominent midrange can be very pleasing on noisy or more trebly stages where it can carry the guitarist a bit without compromising the FOH signal.
    And all in all the Yamaha DXR 10 is still an awesome stage amplifier for the profiler and gives an excellent bang for the buck.


    As I feel the first video is not that different from the second, and certainly not 'wrong', I've put them up both now.
    Sorry for the redundancy, but it was interesting nonetheless.


    First video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXBrlMqdh2c
    Second video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvUv0o_GKig

    Yes, thanks again!


    And, Ben- thanks for the Atomic charts. The cut from 300 to 400 explains why the Yamaha' slight boost leaves it sounding low mid heavy in comparison.


    Armed with this info, between the two of you, I'm back to wanting to hear the Yamaha in person before ordering one. I guess I'll be taking my lunchbox to Guitar Center. With any luck, they'll have A couple of other possibilities in stock, too :)

    Quote from paults

    Yes, thanks again!


    And, Ben- thanks for the Atomic charts. The cut from 300 to 400 explains why the Yamaha' slight boost leaves it sounding low mid heavy in comparison.


    Armed with this info, between the two of you, I'm back to wanting to hear the Yamaha in person before ordering one. I guess I'll be taking my lunchbox to Guitar Center. With any luck, they'll have A couple of other possibilities in stock, too :)

    This thread might be worth a read before you take your lunchbox to Guitar Center, just an idea for a starting point: Optimizing the KPA for the Yamaha DXR10

    Quote from nightlight

    Nice video... But Ingolf, it seems like you never switch to the DXR10 when playing your guitar in that second video, Ingolf. There's just the bit where you're playing the mp3 player. At least that's what I could fathom, given the text displayed on the screen. ?(


    Believe me, I do the switching, I just did more editing in the 2nd video. Switching always has taken place when the displayed text says so.

    Excellent stuff Ingolf. Thanks for doing the second vid. The the dxr sounds great - but the atomic is stunning! I still may buy the atomic when my name comes up.. maybe... I found it very interesting that you take the dxr to gigs over the clrs. I too am lazy it seems as I have little doubt i'd also choose the smaller and lighter option to drag around if it more than satisfactorily gets the job done. I have tweaked the eq on my dxr10 s (light treble and presence boost) and am very happy with it. There is no denying however the Atomic is amazing and superior of the two for clarity.


    Thanks again.. cool vids!


    Oh.. and I hope the guys on your roof are installing a bigger air conditioner.. :D

    I'm all for A/B comparisons and trusting one's ears, but the funny thing about comparing FRFR systems is that you can only judge them relative to other FRFR systems with which you have experience. And by the reports of users who have experience with FRFR systems costing multiple thousands of dollars, the CLR outperforms them all.


    Another thing to keep in mind: switching to a more accurate FRFR system may not necessarily result in you sounding better, at least not initially. In fact, when I first switched to the CLR I sounded sorta muffled because all of my patches were tweaked to sound good through my K10 at the time. But I stuck with it, because I knew that in all likelihood what I was hearing was a more accurate representation of my "true sound" and that I would probably never be able to A/B it against anything arguably more accurate. So my purchasing decision was really based less on my ears and more on my trust in the designer, Jay Mitchell, and his professional pedigree and demonstrated expertise. I'm still extremely happy with my purchase.

    Deny,


    Thanks for mentioning your post - your RTA showed the pole mounted speaker had a boost similar to the one I saw with my un-calibrated iPhone microphone. From your results, I may like the DXR10 as a wedge, with DSP off, and with a little of the bass turned down.


    It has been a long time since I looked at a Bose L1 frequency response chart (I've been using one with my Kemper since last year).
    It has an even wider cut in the 200-400hz range than the atomic does. I guess I'm not the only person who prefers less off those frequencies :)


    I've noticed the EV ZLX12P also has a cut around 250hz. I may try it when I listen to the Yamaha.