Yesterday, I tried using the KPA at a rehearsal and wanted to send the Master outs directly into the mixing desk and from there to the PA. Without really thinking about what I was doing, I took two XLR cables and connected the KPA with the mixing desk. The resulting sound was not satisfying at all. Very harsh - I had to adjust the EQ in the output section quite heavily and it was still not getting close to what you would expect. Now my question: Could it be that the XLR inputs are meant to take microphone signals and that when I connect the KPA to these inputs, it messes up the sound because the signal that comes out of the KPA is higher than your usual microphone?
Trying to figure out what the problem might have been makes me think about that. If the problem was that I connected the KPA the wrong way, then I am pretty sure that other users might have done it the same way. When I came home after the rehearsal I had a look at the manual again, but it doesn't really offer a very precise hint on how to connect the KPA properly.
The same is true for my audio interface. It has the options of -10db, +4db and High-Z. If just went for the one the option that sounded best. But I guess, it might be helpful if there were clear directions the KPA manual. -10db, +4db and High-Z seem to be pretty standard options which are available with most interfaces (and not just mine).
I find that the reference manual says: Master output left and right: max output level XLR +22dBu and TS +16dBu. What do these figures mean?
Any help will be highly appreciated!
KPA into mixing desk and PA help needed
- joerch
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Yesterday, I tried using the KPA at a rehearsal and wanted to send the Master outs directly into the mixing desk and from there to the PA. Without really thinking about what I was doing, I took two XLR cables and connected the KPA with the mixing desk. The resulting sound was not satisfying at all. Very harsh - I had to adjust the EQ in the output section quite heavily and it was still not getting close to what you would expect. Now my question: Could it be that the XLR inputs are meant to take microphone signals and that when I connect the KPA to these inputs, it messes up the sound because the signal that comes out of the KPA is higher than your usual microphone?
Trying to figure out what the problem might have been makes me think about that. If the problem was that I connected the KPA the wrong way, then I am pretty sure that other users might have done it the same way. When I came home after the rehearsal I had a look at the manual again, but it doesn't really offer a very precise hint on how to connect the KPA properly.
The same is true for my audio interface. It has the options of -10db, +4db and High-Z. If just went for the one the option that sounded best. But I guess, it might be helpful if there were clear directions the KPA manual. -10db, +4db and High-Z seem to be pretty standard options which are available with most interfaces (and not just mine).
I find that the reference manual says: Master output left and right: max output level XLR +22dBu and TS +16dBu. What do these figures mean?
Any help will be highly appreciated!Yes, XLR on a live console are usually only mic inputs. You could pad them and lower the output from the KPA, but the safest way is probably to use TS into a D.I.
The figures for max output level are max voltage output on a dB scale with a reference of 1 v (dBV) and 0.775 v (dBu). Notice the references are -10 dBV and +4 dBu. dB in itself is no reference, just a logarithmic scale. Anyway....if selectable, just use +4 dBu
(If you need to use equipment that is -10 dBV only, just factor in that this reference is about 12 dB lower than that of +4 dBu and lower the KPA output by approx the same amount. Or just use the input metering of the device)
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Your guess about the cause of the harsh sound is probably correct.
It's always a good idea to soundcheck using a clean preset, even if you never play with a clean sound. That way, it's clear (from hearing unexpected distortion on your clean sound) when you're overdriving the desk.
The KPA main outputs are really hot. The upside of that is that the KPA can directly drive just about any power amp ever made. (A lot of modelers can't...) The downside is that you have to be really careful not to overdrive mic-level inputs.
In my KPA rack enclosure I have a couple of inline XLR pads between the main outputs and my front-mounted breakout panel. These pads reduce the KPA output (even with the master volume turned up) to a level that's consistent with a mic in front of a cranked amp's speaker. That way I never have to worry about whether the mixing desk has enough range on its input trim or pad to deal with the signal from the KPA.
The inline pads I used are from Hosa. Similar products are available from just about any pro-audio shop.
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If the mixing desk has both, XLR and TRS inputs (Yes, the better ones do have TRS inputs and not just TS) then you simply want to use your XLR Outputs on the Profiler and XLR->TRS adapters at the mixing desk.
http://www.audiopile.net/produ…5/MP-105_600w_DETAILw.jpgIf the mixing desk has XLR inputs only, then use XLR cables and pad the signal in the mixing desk or setup the input channel as a line level input. You want to avoid the TS (unbalanced) outputs of the Profiler, if possible.
You certainly don't want to change the sound on your Profiler using EQs!
Instead, if your mixing desk doesn't like the pretty hot signal from the Profiler's XLR Outputs, you just turn down the Profiler's Main Output Volume:Output menu Page 1/5: Set the Main Output to Master Stereo
Output menu Page 2/5: Adjust the Main Volume until the mixing desk is happy with what it gets from the Profiler.
After you adjusted the Profiler's Output, you might want to lock the Output section with the LOCK button.Cheers,
Martin -
My main output level is set to -20dB and stays like this. This level can be handled well by all FOH mixers that I had to deal with. When set to -10 some FOH guys complain it's too hot.
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I remember that about 6 months ago there was a post of someone who tried out the Kemper into a PA and who reported that the distorted and higher gain sounds didn't really sound like the do via headphones.
Generally speaking, it's best to have the sound of the Profiler setup so it sounds perfect in the band context through good studio monitors or studio headphones. Remember that you might want to do a recording of your band's live gig in the best possible quality. You feed the best possible signal and the FOH guys adjust correspondingly for the audience while they (for example) could offer multi-track or stereo mix recording on a separate, un-altered bus at the same time.As another example: No keyboard/piano player would adjust the sound of his Hammond B3 or his Fender Rhodes or his Bösendorfer Imperial to the FOH sound.
That's what the FOH mixing desk is supposed to do. -
My ear tells me therefore the complete opposite of what Trzan suggested in this thread.
How did you come to that conclusion? Because I suggested +4dBU rather than -10dBv for your XLR outs? It is just proper gain staging. As the RME also has a setting they call "Lo Gain", this is even closer to the headroom of the KPA. The +4dBU setting on the RME has less headroom than what is common...the Lo Gain setting is closer, with +19 dBU = 0 dBFS. With no attenuation in the KPA and no gain/padding on the RME, the "Lo Gain" setting should give you a signal that is 3 dB louder than with S/PDIF.
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One more question for Ingolf: How exactly do you set the output to -20dB? What do you mean by this?
Go to the master menu and dial the output knob down to -20 dB.
I always unlink the master output from the main output knob so I can turn up or down my stage volume without affecting my FOH signal.
My main outputs go to FOH.
The mixing guys are happy. -
The maximum output level of the Profiler on the XLR Master Outputs is +22dBu, the TS Master Outputs are +16dBu.
Usually that's way to much, the german broadcast specifications allow up to +15dBu maximum before clipping occurs but the nominal max. level should not be higher than +4dBu (professional audio) or +6dBu (german broadcast audio).
So you can easily see that turning down the Output Level by 20dB will get you to +2dBu on the XLR Outputs and -4dBu on the TS Outputs ... and that's just fine for most applications. -
The maximum output level of the Profiler on the XLR Master Outputs is +22dBu, the TS Master Outputs are +16dBu.
Usually that's way to much, the german broadcast specifications allow up to +15dBu maximum before clipping occurs but the nominal max. level should not be higher than +4dBu (professional audio) or +6dBu (german broadcast audio).
So you can easily see that turning down the Output Level by 20dB will get you to +2dBu on the XLR Outputs and -4dBu on the TS Outputs ... and that's just fine for most applications.It's not a good idea to attenuate or apply gain unless necessary though. As his interface maxes out at +19 dBu he only needs to back off 3 dB on the KPA to be on the safe side. In addition, it is not a good idea to have profiles maxing out the KPA's headroom
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I just explained why Ingolf uses -20dB on stage ... that doesn't mean that I use -20dB in my environment.
My personal setting is -6dB on the Profiler with the Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 Line Input set to 6 of 10 which gives me roughly -4dBFS maximum. -
I don't really get what you're on about - I admit that I don't have any idea about dB-levels. All I know is that with the Fireface UCX the best option is to have it set to "Lo Gain" - or to connect the KPA via S/PDIF. To my ears, it sounds best. Much better than with the other two options, which sound almost as if they add a slight boost, which alters the tone (and definitely not in a good way).
Yep, "Lo Gain" is the best option on the RME interface. As you're recording to digital, the 3 reference levels on the RME just tells you how it's calibrated relative to 0 dBFS (max digital level). How strong a signal it can take before overload. The "Lo Gain" setting is +19 dBu = 0 dBFS...and since the KPA is +22 dBu you're pretty close (If you want to match the level of the S/PDIF recording exactly, just lower the KPA main out by -3 dB). The +4 dBu setting on the RME is calibrated to +13 dBu = 0 dBFS, which means you'll get a 6 dB louder signal when recording....and there's a big risk of overloading since the KPA can send out 9 dB more than the RME can take.
Assuming you are using XLR (KPA) to TRS (RME).....
