Atomic CLR loudness and clipping ("Solved!")

    Hi


    a couple of weeks ago me and a bandmate both bought Atomic CLRs.


    I Bought a powered wedge that I'm using with my axe-fx II.
    he bought a powered cab to use with his kemper.


    the problem is we both feel the atomic CLR is not loud enough.


    I have the input in the CLR set at 2 o' clock and the output at 1 o'clock, anything more than that and the master clips.
    my bandmate input and output setups are pratically the same, the differences being because of the output from the axe or the kemper.


    from most reviews online we were expecting more volume.


    even quotes like "your drummer will tell you to turn down" nothing like that is happening.


    Anyone experiencing the same?


    but we are both very happy with the sound quality.


    I posted this in the fractal forum aswell, my bandmate (the one with the kemper) asked me to post it here too.



    My QSC K8 is easily much louder and holds together better at loud volumes than my CLR powered wedge. Some serious hype going on in those reviews if you ask me. Try cranking full-range music through one. It's shocking how an 8" speaker can stomp the CLR. YMMV.

    Something's not right here and I think it's user error.
    A CLR gets insanely loud if cranked.
    What does it mean "the master clips"?
    The LED on the CLR indivates input clipping (NOT output clipping) and you should turn down input to approx. 12:00.
    Crank the master then.
    And oh, read again the CLR manual. ;)
    The max. continuous SPL of the CLR is 120 dB, max. peak SPL is 130 dB.
    That's way more than needed to make you deaf very fast.


    Manufacturer SPL ratings are way off at best and downright lies most times.


    The CLR is anything but loud, i'm sorry. Pretty much everything in the 500W range blows it right out of the water, asides for the Samson HD line.
    I agree with ur2funky. Overhyped from back when they were kissing a** in the Fractal forums during early production.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    This is not my point.
    My point is that I suspect user error according to what I wrote.
    And at volumes > 100 dB 1 m in front of me I'm not even debating 'loud' any more. The DXR 10 is louder, so what?
    If you don't find this very loud there's something wrong with your hearing, seriously.
    Keep this thread on track please and try to help the OP.

    Quote from Ingolf

    This is not my point.
    My point is that I suspect user error according to what I wrote.
    And at volumes > 100 dB 1 m in front of me I'm not even debating 'loud' any more.
    If you don't find this very loud there's something wrong with your hearing.
    Keep this thread on track please and try to help the OP.

    You alright, mate?..
    I can't see how debating what loud is helps anyone.


    The CLR is not a loud PA by any means. OP can check for user error as he wills, it will not make the CLR loud, comparatively speaking - so if it's not loud enough, a replacement might be in order.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Quote from Quitty

    You alright, mate?..
    I can't see how debating what loud is helps anyone.


    The CLR is not a loud PA by any means. OP can check for user error as he wills, it will not make the CLR loud, comparatively speaking - so if it's not loud enough, a replacement might be in order.


    I'm quite all right. You should read the OP's post again.
    He isn't movin the master beyond 1:00 because he thinks he is clipping.
    Let him crank it and see if he still has 'loudness issues'.
    Debating whether competitive products are 'Louder' doesn't help at all at the moment.

    what I mean by the master clipping is the led labeled in the manual as "speaker limit indicator" lights red.


    I have the input set up like the manual advises. why should I turn it to 12:00?


    that is where the input is set for the volume I have in the axe-fx II. the input led never lights as I have it.


    don't know why you have the ideia I didn't read the manual

    Quote from burningyen

    Either your units are defective or you haven't followed the gain-staging instructions in the manual. At the settings you're describing my CLR would be painfully loud (I generally have my KPA volume at 8.0).

    I'll ask my friend what value he is using in his KPA


    I'm pretty sure I followed the gain staging correctly, seems pretty straighforward.

    Sorry Brick_top if I didn't understand you right in the first place. I thought you mean the input LED clipping and suspected user error. Sorry again!


    I have set my Input to 12:00 personally to prevent input clipping with the levels my Kemper hits the input stage with.
    That said, if you see the speaker limit indicator flashing and it's not deafening loud there must be a defect like Burningyen suspected.

    Quote from Ingolf

    Sorry Brick_top if I didn't understand you right in the first place. I thought you mean the input LED clipping and suspected user error. Sorry again!


    I have set my Input to 12:00 personally to prevent input clipping with the levels my Kemper hits the input stage with.
    That said, if you see the speaker limit indicator flashing and it's not deafening loud there must be a defect like Burningyen suspected.

    Oh, ok. I suspected it was a misunderstanding..


    Well I don't know if there is a defect, that would be bad luck because both mine and my bandmates CLRs are behaving the same way.


    If I'm in my room and I use it at those volumes I think it is loud, but at reharsal with the band playing it gets hard to ear myself. And I don't like running the speaker that close to its limits.

    Quote from burningyen

    Either your units are defective or you haven't followed the gain-staging instructions in the manual. At the settings you're describing my CLR would be painfully loud (I generally have my KPA volume at 8.0).


    I, you have your kpa
    at 8:00 in the master or in the monitor out?


    I am the bandmate of Brick top and I feel the
    same, when I play alone it's loud and scream very well......when I play with my
    band I lose the sound of my guitar sometimes.



    But when I play pink floyd and other quiet music
    volume is enough, but when I play more agressive sounds even when the master is
    not clipping I have to decrease the volume because palm mutting with some amps
    makes the speaker fart.

    Let's assume user error for a moment here, as the next step really is replacing the CLR.


    1. Low frequencies are harder to amplify. Played loud they should be lower than when you play at home.
    2. Mids cut through mixes. Try a +1.0 in the output section, see if it helps. If it does, adjust to taste.
    3. Try raising the CLR above floor level. Too close and you'll be coupling with the floor - which would make the sound boomy and smeared and reduce low-mids drastically. Some speakers are designed to be coupled with the floor, but most PAs aren't.
    4. Try cross-monitoring. Player A's cab sits behind player B and vice versa. This way you'll each know what the other is hearing.


    Sorry if it sounds like i'm underestimating you, but make sure you cover all ground.
    If it still isn't it, then the CLR probably has to go. Two defective units really doesn't make too much sense.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Paraphrasing from the manual:


    1. Set the CLR's input and output levels to 0.
    2. Send the hottest signal you expect to generate to the CLR and raise the CLR's input level until just before the clip light flashes.
    3. Set the CLR's output level as loud as you want. This is where it can get deafeningly loud. You can crank this to the max and not clip the CLR, assuming your CLR isn't defective.

    Another thought. Are you using the wedge in Backline position? Mine sounds sounds quite different at volume as a wedge compared to Backline. Full range music, backline, at band volume, my CLR comes apart. Awful. I could never use this as a PA speaker in backline position.


    At living room volume in wedge position, it's the best sounding speaker I have.


    It's the only CLR I've heard. Maybe I got a lemon.

    Hi Brick_top,


    I think some of the confusion here is based on the perception that the Speaker Limit Indicator is a clip light. It is not. It is a signal that you are approaching the operating threshold of the speaker. There is at least 6dB more SPL in the CLR when you start to light it. The setting for it is too conservative. In hindsight we shouldn't have included it at all. We're considering getting rid of it in future production to avoid this type of confusion. Ultimately, it has no real purpose because there are other protective mechanisms that will prevent the speaker from being damaged. The moral of the story is to disregard the Speaker Limit Indicator and use your ears.


    I find it very strange to hear people say the CLR is not loud. Most customers say it can be dangerously loud. The CLR specs are not hyped they are accurate (regardless of what other manufacturers may or may not be doing). When we say the CLR can do 120dB continuous / 130dB peak, that is based on conservative ratings using professional measurement techniques and test equipment. That's how loud it is for better or worse.


    Hope this helps.


    Best,


    Tom King
    President
    Atomic Amplifiers

    Tom thanks for clearing this up. I was just going to post what you posted on the fractalaudio forums!


    next rehearsal I'll see how it goes

    Quote from ur2funky

    I could never use this as a PA speaker in backline position.

    Nor should you ever use any speaker on the floor aimed horizontally (IOW, the backline position) "as a PA speaker." For the sake of your audience, I hope you aren't doing that....


    Quote

    Maybe I got a lemon.

    No. You apparently do not understand the purposes and proper uses of the built-in presets, however.


    Hi Tom


    It's Lance.
    Hope you're well....nice to see you here. :thumbup: