Recording bass - boomy notes - any advice?

    Do you mean movin within the room? If this happens the room did not "sound good" on the whole, but you were in a nice spot.


    As I wrote, the speaker mounts will not change the room's behaviour, only the monitor stands' one :)

    Guys, eggboxes and low-density foam don't do ANYTHING except take up space. It's nothing to do with the patterns and valleys causing the frequencies to be absorbed, its a myth.


    What you want is Rockwool sl930 or Owens Corning 703 (in the US) broadband absorption boards. They are high density insulation boards which DO have an effect. But even then their efficacy is limited - sub 100hz... pretty much no effect. At that point you need hemholtz resonators or bass-traps to deal with such low frequencies.


    You can build these yourself relatively cheaply. Do some research on DIY bass traps and DIY broadband absorbers.


    High density foam does have an effect, but it does absolutely NOTHING for sub 150hz. Don't get conned into buying those foam bass traps or foam panels; they wont cure your problem.

    Bass is a constant struggle for me as well, and the main problem is that most of us don't really have a monitoring environment allowing us to truly hear what's going on down there.


    As mentioned, reference monitoring pro productions is (always) a good idea, but when doing so it might be tempting to turn your bass up in your mix (because after all it can't be a clearly heard as the one in the reference mix). However this will most likely land you in the most common pitfall: a too bass heavy mix which clutters everything and makes it impossible to get competitive levels (= loudness). The trick is to give your bass a boost in the high frequencies (typically 2,5khz and up). When this is done correctly, you should be able to turn the bass frequencies of the bass guitar down - while still hearing the bass instrument (ie the higher frequencies of the bass) - and this will give you a more balanced mix.


    As a solution to your boomy problem, the "poor man's trick" is is a gentle high pass filter at ~100Hz. Better would be a multi band compressor which can tame specific parts of the bass sound (you need to do the later in post production as KPA does not support frequency range specific compression).


    Another common method is to split your bass track up into two different tracks in your DAW, this allows you to treat the low-end part of your sound differently, and you can easily adjust levels. This also allows you to add a different amount of compression to bass, respectively high-end part - of the bass sound.


    I do find this method a bit less intuitive when mixing, and I'd rather have a useful bass sound from start (that's one of the reasons I requested multiband compression in KPA).


    Quote

    I find when recording bass it gets pretty boomy on some notes - any suggestions for pre or post processing ideas to deal with this? I use compression VST to even out the tone.


    So simply put: If you try to EQ this away, that EQ will also affect notes you don't experience as boomy. If you try to compress it away, that compression is likely to kick in on other parts that are loud (for other reasons than boomyness - so to speak).


    The perfect compromise is multiband compression, which allows you to do these kinds of tweaks with surgical control.

    What I normally do:


    EQ:


    Low cut to really cut out the boomy low frequencies 50-80 hz


    Boost to max: a narrow frequency range around 200-400 Hz, move round and then listen if anything disturbing is going on.
    If you find this spot: Do a cut on this frequency range.


    Use some compression on the bass track to boost stuff that is not loud enough and cut too loud parts.


    Try to get the best recording result before applying the above (use a not too bassy amp profile. Found a nice profile of a fender Bassman I regularly use and which fits great in the mixes normally.


    You can also record the dry signal and then mix it to the amp signal in your DAW.

    Definitely recommend DIY bass traps. I think owen's corning 703 has been mentioned, and I THINK that is the right one. Basically, fiber glass of high density. RIGID fiberglass for ease of work, but the rigidity doesn't really have anything to do with acoustic properties - in general. Myself, I used Rockwool (Roxul in the states?) bacause I'm paranoid about small particles in the air. I contacted them directly to ask about which grade would be the most effective to absorb low frequencies in a studio application. They were very helpful. I don't know what the product I used is called ouside Denmark, though.


    Also, use the sine sweep - or just do it manually with a signal generator plugin, which I think is easier as you get to control the sweep directly - and register where the deepest peaks and nulls are. Once you've written those down, you can set it to one problem frequency at a time (starting with the worst one) and experiment with placement.


    Common wisdom dictates corners are prime candidates. Which corners exactly vary greatly. Not always convenient places! Sometimes it's just the wall/wall corners, other times it's a floor/wall or wall/ceiling corner. Use your ears. walk around the edges and corners of the room and listen. Wash, lather, rinse, repeat. You might need more traps than you'd like. It's not a place to skimp if you want to do something about it. Bass traps / broadband absorbers can be placed straddling a corner for maximum effect in relation to number of acoustic panels.


    Also, experiement with you LISTENING position, that can have a huge impact as well. Yeah, basically when listening for problem areas, find the best (usable) listening position, and then sit THERE and listen for problems. Then treat those.


    Also, regular bass traps / broadband absorbers (say 4 inches thick) DO work below 100 Hz, just not as effectively - there can be a fairly sharp cutoff. But they DO absorb lower.



    Wow, that was a confusing jumble of words. Hope somebody gets something out of it.

    Quote from viabcroce

    Actually, rather than chasing for all thr nodes and the antinodes in the room, it would be enough to flatten out the response at the listening point.



    Oh yeah, most definitely! What I meant by the whole running around and listening stuff was exactly this.


    Find out what the problem frequencies are IN THE LISTENING SPOT. Then play a sine wave of that frequency while going around the room, listening for places near the corners where that frequency is exaggerated or attenuated (can't remember if it's one or the other - maybe either?) and then using that as a starting point for where you might place some treatment.


    End result as always is what matters.

    Also if you put your broadband panels *across* a corner with an air-gap behind them, it improves their absorption. You don't necessarily need to go insane with the "superchunk" method, and in fact you end up spending more money that way, when you could've just left an air gap.


    You can also get membrane traps. I've no experience of them, but they're supposed to be good for sub 100hz frequencies.

    Membrane traps - is that like a helmholtz resonator? If so, the problem is that it is tuned to a particular frequency, so it only helps with that specific problem. I think the general advice (depending on budget) is to just get a lot of broadband basstraps.


    For the superchunk method you can more easily get away with the fluffy insulation material - and I think it might be cheaper, so it may be worth consideration.


    Check out http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html


    And after all is said and done, determine how crazy you wanna go. Decide how much you really need. Yes, acoustic treatment is important for recording and mixing etc, but if it's hobby level, maybe you don't need a totally dead room ;)



    And before you get crazy with it, check the setup of your bass. Mine has some boomyness on the low E string that was alleviated a bit by fiddling with string and pickup height - although it is not completely gone.

    Nah the membrane traps are a different thing:
    http://gikacoustics.co.uk/prod…uned-membrane-bass-traps/


    Quote

    Typical broadband options require a great deal of thickness to reach very low frequencies often to the point of being impractical and can also over-damp the higher frequencies. Other bonded membrane absorbers do not have the high frequency issue but are still relatively broad in nature and usually absorb up to 1 kHz. Unlike a Helmholtz resonator which has a narrow range of absorption, the Scopus Tuned Bass Trap has a broad absorption frequency range from 35Hz to 125Hz. Scopus Tuned Bass Traps work in the desired range only, leaving your mid- and high-end frequencies intact instead of deadening a room.


    I think I'm gonna invest in one or two of these when I move house next year.

    Thought I'd share this as being the neatest solution to roll your own Bass traps.

    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

    t


    I have put together a whole load of these now using 4" RW3 Rockwool slab which is 4' * 2'. http://www.condell-ltd.com/Pro…qAqfIPNNGGbkioaAqbf8P8HAQ


    I'm happy to share any further tips on construction and materials having gone through the process already.


    I;m not out of the woods sonically in my room but its a work in progress. You will definitely need more trapping than you think and you will never completely cure the sub 100hz region in a small room. The gleaned knowledge from my own research suggests anything like +10/ -10db over linear response is a pretty good outcome for a small room. In my 14' * 10' room I currently have superchunks in each corner each taking 5 slabs (4 triangles per slab if your calculating how much you may need) then 2 double height traps (8' * 4') around each side at the first reflection point. 3 double height traps on rear wall, all with a 4" air gap behind. 3 standard length suspended ceiling clouds (6" air gap to ceiling).


    As to fabric I am looking to this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Acou…&var=&hash=item19e26c2812


    My biggest issue was I don't have the depth of experience to compare the output from a frequency analyzer and how this should compare to what I hear at the listening spot. Those with better ears may be able to get past these issues without some specific testing but I opted to test using Room EQ wizard 5 which is free from home theater shack. Luckily I already had an Audix TR40 but you can pick up the cheaper Behringer ECM800 for about £35. Investing in a SPL meter is also a wise move, Obviously do tests to your room as it is now and to see where your problem is - £35 on a measurement mic is a small investment when you consider the time and cost of building all the trapping


    I've used closed to 10 full bales (4 per pack) with 2 bales over to experiment with my remaining frequency problems and I have no doubt they will get used.


    Oh and Happy New Year everyone!

    Btw one really fast way to clean up excessive bass frequency in guitar profiles is to turn up the "clarity" soft knob in the amp section, maybe worth testing on your problematic bass profile? This is obviously not the right solution if the room is the problem.


    Looks great, but damn that fabric is expensive! "Acoustic" fabric isn't really a thing. It's the breathability factor that is important. You want breathability so that sound can pass through it rather than being reflected from its surface - so suede is out for instance!


    I wouldn't be spending fifty quid on a roll. I'd be cheaping out and getting some perfectly suitable rolls of fabric for a tenner.


    imho, ymmv, etc... etc...

    @drew_dx


    I did have some previous DIY traps which were of inferior to the new ones and had those wrapped in hemp decorators sheeting but after a while the "beige" thing began to get on my nerves. I spend a lot of time in the studio and with the extra traps now covering at least 50% of the visible wall I thought a new colour scheme with a more professional finish would make this a nicer place to work. I know the 'Acoustic material' is a bit like the right handed screwdriver but having looked around fabric suppliers this stuff on ebay measure up quite well in terms of costs per meter to other general fabrics. I also needed a material that as well as being breathable would remain taught without wrinkling as it stretches over time. The hemp stuff I had did stretch and ending up looking like a load of unmade beds.


    The rolls are convenietly sized so not much in the way of wastage so at £150 or so and a beer free January it should pay dividends in the long run. That's the hope anyway.


    Once I've been able to work out the final placement of all the traps I can go about filling in the countless holes in my walls from moving the traps 6" here 6" there and then dig out the paint roller. Moving the traps by increments remains a major pain in the butt when you are doing this without a degree in aucoustic engineering I guess it's inevitable!


    I only wish I knew more about the subject but I am resigned to the fact that proper analysis and design is best left to the pro's.Even now I would still consider getting an engineer in if I could find someone who in my area who would advise at a reasonable fee as I suspect even with what I can do following some of the conventional wisdom around amount and placement of traps I am still going to be left with some null frequencies. So if anyone in the Birmingham area is reading....

    @Duncan


    I'm not too sold on acousticians :) With all the calculations done, you still need to listen for where there are problems. I think with room eq wizard, a behringer mesurement mic and a dBmeter you're 90% there. The rest is just hard work. Rooms are horrible things, they behave in all sorts of unexpected ways!


    But it seems you're doing all the right things :) And yeah, one definitely needs more bass traps than expected. For my room, what had the biggest impact was moving the listening position further back in the room, hands down. That's where to start.


    If you need help interpreting graphs from REQ, feel free to ask. I'm no expert, but I have used the software myself :)