FRFR Shootout Video .........

    Hi all !


    Just found this on YouTube


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    Its in German [ I think ] - the audio starts at 17:02.


    It sort of confirms what I have been thinking and hearing with some FRFR cabs I have so far tried - so far Ive only tried a DXR10 and an EV112


    In short:-


    - there is NO FRFR standard / reference-point
    - they all sound different
    - in their own way, they are all [ sort of ] useable


    My conclusion [ so far at least ] based on my own use of a DXR10 and an EV112 and this video, is that even with the KPA "guessing" where the cab is [ FW 2.7.4 ] a regular, good quality guitar cab with good quality speakers is still best for on-stage guitar use ....... non of the video's -or- the DXR10 and EV112 sound much like a guitar cab - they are good, but to my ears at least, they don't have the attack / thud / focus of a good guitar cab .......and once we have 3.0 Direct Profiles, this will likely [ if possible / audible ] get even better.


    If you need or want just good onstage monitoring and don't need a "real" rig behind or next to you, any of the FRFR's I have tried or heard would be excellent.


    But if like me, you are using your Kemper as a "real" onstage amp and want "real" onstage guitar thud and grunt, I think the FRFR route is an endless-search - no matter the volume, when I tried the DXR10 and the EZ112, they sounded great and were loud but had no "gut punch" to them ...... no eq could fix it ....... they just did not respond anything like a cranked amp and real cab.


    As an aside, I recently spent some time in a very high end studio here in town and was recording with my Kemper and got talking to the Engineer about the whole real-cab vs FRFR option.


    We were recoding a DR Z patch and he was going from my Kemper [ Cab ON ] out and a mic on my 2 x 12 real cab with an basic SM57 setup monitor out with cab off - both signals sounded AMAZING.


    As I was playing he instantly flicked my 2 sounds across 7 different sets of Studio Monitors - all top end - I mean REALLY top end - the tonal differences were ENORMOUS - some sounded great some sound @?@?@? ..... but all were mix / mastering level quality monitors ...... BIG $$$$ .... and all supposed "the best".


    His point to me ?


    If I want to get on the FRFR merry-go-round and blow a small fortune on different setups, go for it.

    Not saying FRFR is bad - quite the opposite - but its just another way - he has saved me a fortune.


    I told him I thought my real cab "cab off" sound could not be as good as direct / cab on -or- cab on FRFR ........ he laughed :) He pulled up my SM57 real cab "cab off" sound, tweaked a touch on the channel strip and I was gobsmacked - that was the sound we went with.


    Ben

    Thanks very much for sharing the vid and for your thoughts on this. I've tried a few FRFR setups as well and while I have used them and liked them, I tend to agree with you that a cab behind you is something that one gets very used to and it is a hard habit to break. You have made a lot of sense with your post.


    I kind of flip-flop with this decision which is why I've been taking my time with it. I'm still searching and most likely will go the regular cab route, myself. It kind of serves two purposes for me. I will be able to run my KPA through it and if I do desire to get a tube head well....then I'm already set because I have a cab ready to use with it as well.

    Quote from PBGas

    Thanks very much for sharing the vid and for your thoughts on this. I've tried a few FRFR setups as well and while I have used them and liked them, I tend to agree with you that a cab behind you is something that one gets very used to and it is a hard habit to break. You have made a lot of sense with your post.


    I kind of flip-flop with this decision which is why I've been taking my time with it. I'm still searching and most likely will go the regular cab route, myself. It kind of serves two purposes for me. I will be able to run my KPA through it and if I do desire to get a tube head well....then I'm already set because I have a cab ready to use with it as well.


    Thanks PBGas & Gitarrenschlumpf


    I play a mix of modern / classic rock ....... dirty / broken / hard-pushed-clipped cleans, various degree's of cranked crunch, cranked solo's, basic effects etc........ so that is where my comments are coming from.

    I have no issue at all with FRFR.


    Its just that for me I want and have to hear the sound of a cranked Amp and Cab [ now KPA ] onstage behind me - I'll let the FOH guy worry about how he should run it out the FOH :) ......... if I cant feel that cranked tube/cab sound with me on stage, its very hard for me to get into it :) ...... I know Im old school and a dinosaur about these things but that's how I much prefer it ..... :)


    I also have no doubt that a good FRFR will suit many, many people.


    This video though -for me- was the "straw that broke the camels back


    ..... I knew from trying and cranking both the DXR10 and the EV112 that they both sounded greatbut........ they both sounded tonally very different from each other........ and they both didn't have the thud/focus I get from a real cab.


    ...... then I found this video and it confirmed what I had heard in person from the DXR10 and EZ112


    For us [old school] guitarists too .... once FW 3.0 full cab separation profiling lands, FRFR options will become a non-issue / non-necessity ie: Cab Separated Speaker Impedance Profiled Amp = real deal


    But ..... if you are using the KPA with Cabs ON [ ie: full profiles ] then I think a good FRFR is still probably the best option.


    Ben

    What sized venues are you playing?


    One thing you might want to consider is how your stage volume affects the FOH mix. If you are blasting a 4x12 cab in a small venue, chances are, your sound guy has you pulled all the way out of the mains because you're too loud, and the only people that can hear you are directly in front of your cab and the only one it sounds good to is you because it's eq'ed to your ears which are several feet away from the mic'ed speaker. I'm not saying this is the case, but it's a possibility.


    If you are playing in large venues where the stage volume can be really loud and it's not an issue, then it's really just a matter of what sounds better to you and what you're used to. Me personally? If I'm going to lug around a speaker cabinet and have loud stage volume, I've got a 100w head for that and I wouldn't have spent any money on a KPA.

    I have a Mission Engineering Gemini 1x12 FRFR cab. It has thump due to many reasons, one of which is the birch ply wood cab. It leaks a bit from the back to fill the room with warm lows that I really like. I came from the 4x12 greenback camp and have been satisfied with FRFR flexibility. If you plan to record a lot and you get used to the setup you don't have 2 trains of thought colliding . Studio vs live ect.
    My JBL wedges sound great too but very directional and missing that thang.
    The greenback cab with cab off didn't retain that recording studio ready prerequisite so I use that cab as a stand to show off the Marshall JVM410H which I dust on occasion.

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