A Little bummed out.

  • Hi Sugarlou,
    I also struggled a long time with the kemper and a FRFR (in my case first single, later dual yamaha dxr 12). From my experience (for what it is worth ...) you can't get a FRFR system sound the way a 1x12 or a 2x12 cab sounds. I think both solutions have their strenghts and weaknesses. It seems logical that a FRFR will never sound exactly like a 1 or 2x12 because these are totally different soundproducing devices:
    Amp: FRFR flat response with no respons between amp and speaker, crossover design.
    Speakers: FRFR does have tweeters, the speakers of a cab are not picked to have a flat response but are tailored to sound good with guitar. A FRFR is linear in respons with volume while a guitar speaker is not (compresses somewhat at higher volumes). Sometimes in a 2x12 cab two different speakers are used to balnce the overall sound even more.
    Cabinet design: FRFR is made not to resonate and has a bass port tailored to a full range response , a good wooden cabinet is made to resonate and has a specific 'bass port' (open (in all its varieties) or closed back).


    All these differences are leading I think towards my experiences with these speakers:
    FRFR has advantages at lower volumes (that is beneath the volume of a hard hitting acoustic drummer) At lower volumes we like to hear some more bass and treble (our ears are most sensitive to middle frequencies, but with higher volumes sensitivity is more even across the frequencies). The Kemper is extremely good at maintaining control over the volume and the gain. Escpecially when you play at lower volumes and you play with other soundsources that have balanced volume output (like keyboards or electric drums) this is a great advantage. With a guitar cab you can also easily isolate your sound somewhat too much from the keyboard player. Tube amps with guitar cabs at lower volumes often sound somewhat thin and 1-dimensional.
    Guitar Amps have advantages at higher volumes (f.e. in a band with hard hitting acoustic drums): the evenness and richness of harmonics (the '3d quality' or 'amp in the room sound') of a quality amp and cab on it's volume where it is designed for can not be rivaled by a kemper and FRFR imho (but maybe with a kemper and Solid state or tube-amp and cab , i don't know, i dont have experience with that). Another advantage is when you play with two guitar players in a rock band two cab's are much more easy to be differenciated from each other as compared to FRFR on these volumes. Lots of tube amps these days have limited wattages so sound on their best (with crancked poweramp tubes) at bandvolumes which are 'reasonable' (but that's a very subjective term).


    Of course this is totally written form the pesepctive of the guitar player. Another point considering is your audience :D The kemper sends out unrivaled signal to the PA (no problems with miking or leak from other soundsources) and when you adress your public through a pa the Kemper is better than a miked amp, well at least much easier and consitant to set up. On the other hand when you gig the 'old fashioned way' (with guitars through the cabs and vocals through a pa) this can be great too (or even better imho,you give the audience some of your superb cab-sounds :love: ).


    Another point is off course you have good and bad constructed FRFR as well as guitar cabs, and the issue of 'breaking in' speakers, and of course everbody bring sin their own ears and experience. If you play 20 years in a rockband with your tube combo and are totally in that sound, it really is a dfferent story when you play on a kemperFRFR. But when you practice at home with a line6 something or a jamvox, picking up a kemper will be jawdropping.


    This just to share my experience. No way i want to criticise the kemper, it sounds very very good, the lag is not noticable, the effects are great. Especially when recording it is unsurpassed and the community and support is great as well, the free profiles and lots of great commercial profiles.
    :thumbup::thumbup:

  • I'm really interested in this thread. I tried the DI profile a while back through my EVM 12L Wedge and it sounded just like any guitar amp I've owned. It, along with a SS amp becomes your combo amp. I still haven't had enough time to buy a smaller solid state amp that I can "compactly" take to these small blues/jazz gigs. I'm disappointed that we can't go stereo this way since only a mono DI out exists, but as a work around, I send that signal to a Lexicon MPX-1, then into the SS amp, then two EVM 12L's in stereo and it's beautiful, but much too much to carry to small gigs. DI either way is the solution. When are the commercial profilers going to make more, are they waiting for something (future firmware) as I've only seen a few so far.

  • By the way, this is still the same as I used to take to gigs: Before was two EVM 12L wedges, Mesa 20/20P, preamp of choice (simple Fenderish tube preamp), Lexicon MPX-1. This worked fine. I want the KPA to make things even simpler eventually somehow.

  • Im using MBritts profiles. Im not sure which pack...again through headphones amazing!


    Im using the stack in my avatar... The cabs are most definitely on for the CLR ! ( have you ever turned the cab off running into a FRFR cab OMG! horrible)


    I send the through xlr from the CLR to our PA system. So it mirrors the CLR.


    Im turning 50 this month and yes Ive been accustomed to "real" tube amps but I have an open mind and open ears. Plug n play? Maybe for some but I have a high expectation of what my guitar sound needs to be in order for me to be satisfied.


    I dont "settle". I can't say well its a FRFR so its going to sound wierd or different. Its supposed to replace my tube amps and as of right now (with a CLR) its not.


    Ive tried the amp settings EQ..Ive tried the cab settings.. Ive adjusted the out put settings and so far the only way to get reasonable close is to use the CLR with the EVM 12" cab and power amp.


    Ive set the KPA/CLR up in several rooms of the house...Its not the room. The CLR has a resonance that sound like a digital guitar rig when compared to a real combo amp. When I A/B between the two it becomes painfully apparent its a profile. It sounds distant and un organic. Robot like even.



    I have NOT tried a DI profile through the EVM cab. Perhaps thats the key here. Maybe Im trying to dial in the wrong cab.


    Tone is subjective I realize that. "Plug n play " for some is very different for others. Fortunately ( or unfortunately ) I have owned some high end guitar amps ( Bogner Orange Marshall RedPlate Buddha Soldano Splawn etc) so my standards are high and my expectations may be unrealistic but I bought the KPA based on reviews of others gushing about its virtues.


    I am NOT bashing the KPA...Im STRUGGLING with it.


    I am also not really OK with spending months and months trying to get a guitar tone. I thought it would be much closer with less tweaking than the Axe. And initially it was but now Im starting to question that.


    I will look into the "gain staging" comment Viabcroce, not sure what that means.


    I greatly appreciate all the help. The KPA community is the best!

  • The CLR has a resonance that sound like a digital guitar rig when compared to a real combo amp.


    Have you tried the kemper through that combo amps speaker? :)


    Also "resonance like a digital guitar rig" doesn't really mean anything to me. :D What do you mean by resonance in the first place, high frequency resonance? Low frequency resonance? Maybe the CLR has a broken speaker?

  • CLR is working perfectly. If I play my acoustic through it or even a CD it sounds amazing.


    Describing sound is very difficult.


    It's a bit like a stage monitor wedge that has a low mid ring to it. I can sort of eq it out but still not happy with the result.


    If you palm mute the strings and chug it's very apparent.


    If someone has a specific profile they feel sounds great unedited through a CLR I'd love to try it.

    Edited once, last by sugarlou ().

  • Have you tried the kemper through that combo amps speaker? :)


    Hi Sugarlou,


    Further to Nakedzen's comment...


    I remember you had mentioned you had sent out your RedPlate combo for repair. Is it back, yet? If so, please try what Nakedzen recommended, and hook your KPA up by connecting it to your RedPlates FX Return. Just remember to turn off the Cabinet section (obviously).


    It could be that your issue is more with the FRFR monitors, rather than the KPA itself.


    Perhaps you really have a strong tonal preference for the sound from your Redplate's combo, and it's open-back 1x12 character. I believe the RedplateTweedy Drive combo comes stock with a Celestion Classic Lead 80 speaker.


    One other note, in regards to your frustration with the KPA ==> FRFR monitor. I haven't actually made a census, but it seems to me that the majority of Factory Rigs on the KPA are based on 4x12 closed back cabinets (at least, that is my impression). If you have the latest Firmware, you should have three (3) 1x12 Cabinet PRESETS that are derived from the Merged Profiles Pack. So, if you get a chance, try the following:


    a) Hook up your KPA to your CLR, and pull up one of your favorite rigs...perhaps one that is similar to your RedPlate Tweedy
    b) Hold down the "Cab" button for a second to pull up the menu
    c) Turn the BROWSE knob by one click. Two menus will appear on the screen, below the soft buttons. You can choose to browse cabinets from "Rigs" or from "Presets". Select "Presets"
    d) Scroll to and select either of the following Cab Presets, and demo them:


    Fan Lux 58 1-12
    GT 75 1-12
    Robotz Gainy 1-12


    I think you might enjoy the Robotz Gainy 1-12 Cab Preset


    Bear in mind, I realize this suggestion has no bearing on the other issue you have, regarding the tone of the KPA through your headphones, and your frustration in not being able to recreate the same sonic "sound-scape" through either your Bogner guitar cab, or your FRFR CLR.


    In any event, if you try the above experiment, give us your feedback.


    Good Luck and cheers,
    John

  • While a linear cab doesn't certainly sound like a guitar cab, the "robot-like" and "resonance" references are what makes me think.
    Could you record your CLR so we can have an idea about what you're describing?
    The CLR has no resonance whatsoever, and it faithfully reproduces what you put in it. So - provided the CLR is working properly and we can exclude any room- or placement-related issues - I believe you don't like the profiles you're using.
    Also, be sure to have the cab on on the Profiler, to not clip neither input or output and to gain-stage the CLR as per the manual.


    HTH :)

  • I can try n make a clip for this thread when I can crank things up a bit. Ill need to get my A/B box to make it apparent.


    I don't believe the effects return on the RedPlate will bring good results. I actually PREFER closed back 4x12 cabs which is one of the reasons I got the KPA in the first place.


    To be able to get that cranked big rig tone in a small footprint at reasonable levels.


    I have a "strong tonal preference" for 100 watt tube amps dimed through 4x12s! Think AC/DC but I understand and will certainly audition other cabs as suggested.


    Perhaps Im doing a poor job of describing why Im struggling w the CLR. I just know that when I play with headphones it sound killer and its inspiring and SOMETHING unpleasant happens when routed through the CLR


    I tried auditioning other cabs. I can see how this makes a HUGE difference


    I don't see any of these in my cabs list


    "Fan Lux 58 1-12GT 75 1-12Robotz Gainy 1-12"


    Did they come with an update Ive missed?

    Edited 3 times, last by sugarlou ().


  • Hi Sugarlou,


    I received a factory new Power Rack about a little over a month ago, and one of the first things I did was upgrade Firmware to 3.02. I believe that the three Cab Presets I mentioned, and you listed above, are part of the "Factory Merged Profiles Pack", which is integral to Firmware 3.0 and higher (later). However, if these Cabinets are not showing up in your Cabinet Preset browse pool, you may have to go into Systems menu, and "Import Factory Rigs" Since you probably don't want another 300+ Rigs suddenly appearing in your All Rigs browse pool, I would you go about it differently, if you are interested in these three Cabs:


    Just go to the Kemper download site (link below), and download only the 49 Merged Profiles that are part of the Merged Profile Pack:


    http://www.kemper-amps.com/pag…mplifier___Downloads.html


    Then, put these onto the SHARED folder of your USB Flash drive, and import them into your KPA. The Cab presets will come along with them. If you don't want to keep the 49 Rigs, just go to Last Imported view, and delete the rigs. The Cab Presets will stay on your KPA, even if you delete the rigs.


    Bear in mind, that there are some awsome 4x12 Cabs that should now appear in your Cab Presets as well, having come from some of the Merged Profiles --> these include Cabs by Michael Britt, Andy44 (TAF) and Deadlight Studios. So, you most definitely will want to check those out.


    Truth be told, I had focused on those three (3) 1x12 cabinets, only because I was (mistakenly) thinking you were looking for recreating the cab sound of your Tweedy Drive combo. If you prefer raging 4x12 cabs...then, by all means, there are some excellent examples in this Merged Pack. Also, I would recommend you grab some of the free cabs available on Till Schneider's site. I was so impressed (as are many, here), that it was a no brainer for me to purchase his full "CabLab" Pack. You want to talk about 4x12 chewy goodness with cream centers...Till's CabLab has it! In any event, start with the free stuff in the Factory Merged Pack, to see if the Cab Presets are going to make a difference.


    I really think finding the right Cabinet profile to work with your CLR is going to be the answer for you.


    Cheers, and good luck
    John

    Edited 4 times, last by Tritium ().

  • I don't see any of these in my cabs list


    "Fan Lux 58 1-12GT 75 1-12Robotz Gainy 1-12"


    Did they come with an update Ive missed?


    You have two choices with the Cabinets...to see the choices press the "Cabinet" button.


    You'll see a "Presets" box and a "From Rigs" box.
    If you like a particular cabinet you can Save and re name it in which case it will now be stored in "Presets".
    Or, "From Rigs" allows you to use every single Cabinet within a Profile currently in your Kemper...use the Browse knob.


    If you like a big 4X12 sound, have you tried the "Tills" cabinets yet, Andy's Marshall 1987X cabinet, ACE Skunk Anansies Marshall cab, etc?
    It's not science, you're just not liking the Cabinet you're hearing through your CLR...your solution lies in finding the right cabinet for your ears.