live cab or internal cab?

    For a long time now I played at home with the Kemper: just through a 212 Marshall cabinet with not great speakers, still in a simple way: switching rigs with a midifootcontroller, no making use of Performance mode.


    But now I'm in a band again with gigs to come and I wonder if the sound improves by just making use of internal cabinets of the Kemper (turning CAB ON). I'm going to play in- ear through a Sennheiser EW 300 system (much better for my ears than a large monitor in front of me, lost allready some hearing-frequencies throughout the years!). Also the stage is free from all amps noise...


    My questions:
    - What delivers the best sound: still a miked live stage monitor guitar cab to the PA mixer or the sound from a (profiled?) internal cab directly to the PA mixer?


    - How to get the best choice for a matching internal cab to an internal profiled amp (for that particular song) or is this just personal? Sofar I haven't make use of any internal cab (always turned OFF)


    - And finally: How to set things up in the right way for a chosen rig for this purpose to the PA mixer so that you can hear the best (better than a miked cab?) results through your in-ears?


    Hopefully anyone can give me clues.

    Quote from theplayer


    - What delivers the best sound: still a miked live stage monitor guitar cab to the PA mixer or the sound from a (profiled?) internal cab directly to the PA mixer?

    Internal Kemper cab to PA mixer, no doubt.


    Quote from theplayer

    - How to get the best choice for a matching internal cab to an internal profiled amp (for that particular song) or is this just personal? Sofar I haven't make use of any internal cab (always turned OFF)

    Studio rigs contains the whole signal chain incl. the cab. So switch on cab, listen and
    from there.


    Quote from theplayer

    How to set things up in the right way for a chosen rig for this purpose to the PA mixer so that you can hear the best (better than a miked cab?) results through your in-ears?

    Use studio monitors and play loud when dialing in your rigs.

    Hi Ingolf. Thanks for your reply.


    So what you're saying is that every cab, linked to an amp in the Kemper, (whether factory, studio, "home made" by any one, artist) always should sound good? Or do you mean any random internal cab in the Kemper?


    I sometimes use 2 QSC K8 speakers for this at home because in advance I have to get everything OK before connecting all to the PA mixer.. But you write: PLAY LOUD. Why? I gues the sound coming out of the PA (any PA) should be perfect, regardless volumes, right? Or is this wishful thinking...?


    And my last issue: I know that when you start listening several cabs for comparing, in the end you lose it or don't hear differences any more. I also read that many Kemper users rather play with a live miked cab than make use of an internal cab, even on stage.

    Quote from theplayer

    Hi Ingolf. Thanks for your reply.


    So what you're saying is that every cab, linked to an amp in the Kemper, (whether factory, studio, "home made" by any one, artist) always should sound good? Or do you mean any random internal cab in the Kemper?

    No, I mean the cab that was originally profiled with the amp. If it sounds good is, at last, a question of your personal taste. But surely it sounds as the creator of the profile intended it to sound and considered good.


    Quote from theplayer


    I sometimes use 2 QSC K8 speakers for this at home because in advance I have to get everything OK before connecting all to the PA mixer.. But you write: PLAY LOUD. Why? I gues the sound coming out of the PA (any PA) should be perfect, regardless volumes, right? Or is this wishful thinking...?


    Google 'Fletcher-Munson' and you'll see why tweaking at levels at about 85 dB yields the best results


    Quote from theplayer


    And my last issue: I know that when you start listening several cabs for comparing, in the end you lose it or don't hear differences any more. I also read that many Kemper users rather play with a live miked cab than make use of an internal cab, even on stage.

    Ear fatigue surely can happen anytime and requires a break. That many Kemper users prefer a miked cab is simply not true. :)

    Thanks again! I wil go experimenting with my QSC PA (2xK8 and Ksub + a Allen Heath ZED 12FX). I guess this should be a good indicator compared to a larger PA of the band.

    I'm not really familiar with PA's but I guess it's just connecting 2 two XLR Main Outputs to two XLR inputs on the mixer, next raising volumes until 85 dB on the Kemper and then tweaking a bit with gain inputs and adjust volume sliders on the mixer to get a live stage setting....right?

    Just one more thing: There are several internal cabs in the Kemper. You write that the amp + cab is a matching combination because the creator intended to sound like that. That means that experimenting with other internal cabs in many cases would be a waste of time (unless you like to sound like crap... though) ;)

    Quote from theplayer

    Just one more thing: There are several internal cabs in the Kemper. You write that the amp + cab is a matching combination because the creator intended to sound like that. That means that experimenting with other internal cabs in many cases would be a waste of time (unless you like to sound like crap... though)


    Other cabs just sound different, and it's certainly a matter of taste after that. I used to experiment with different cabs a lot when I first got my KPA, but not so much now. I came to the conclusion that I wanted the true profiled tone so that I had the best mix of amp options for my tonal palette. One thing's for sure, as Ingolf suggested, you need volume to get the real feel. Enjoy!

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    No need for connecting two XLR's to FOH. Just go mono, because stereo often leads to problems live. And you save a channel on the mixer... :)

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

    Like 1

    Everything I do is mono, I mean really how many people in your audience will actually hear both sides of your sound as you intend it to sound? Very few outside of that small sweetspot.

    I tried all suggestions maar I really can't say that all is an improvement. The sound from rigs with a matching cab is not vivid, rather dull, undefined and need quite some eq to sound convincing. That was not my aim. Maybe I'm doing not the right thing... just some examples:
    Take: TAF - Fan Vibr Clean+ This rig (with cab name: Fan Vibr. Queen from And 44) sounds very distorted (is this suppose to be like that?)
    Or: 63' Vibroverb (with cab Eminence Blue Alinic). Not quite brilliant and open.
    It's hard to understand if it sounds like it is suppose to be...

    Quote from theplayer

    I tried all suggestions maar I really can't say that all is an improvement. The sound from rigs with a matching cab is not vivid, rather dull, undefined and need quite some eq to sound convincing. That was not my aim. Maybe I'm doing not the right thing... just some examples:
    Take: TAF - Fan Vibr Clean+ This rig (with cab name: Fan Vibr. Queen from And 44) sounds very distorted (is this suppose to be like that?)
    Or: 63' Vibroverb (with cab Eminence Blue Alinic). Not quite brilliant and open.
    It's hard to understand if it sounds like it is suppose to be...


    When you listen to any studio profile through studio monitors while having cab switched ON, then what you hear is how it's supposed to sound in the opinion of the profile creator.

    OK Ingolf.
    I searched on and came upon an old topic in the GEAR+ PAGE net: http://www.thegearpage.net/boa…/kemper-main-out.1236456/about Kemper main out instead of Monitor out.

    It's accompanied by a youtube in which he explains what he does. However this is not clear to me because he doesn't let the viewer see the Kemper's screen. He uses the rig Nitro Austin Boost. Nice rig. Despite of what Booyah writes ("play mono") a stereo delay adds a lot of nice spacial ambience using my 2 K8. But surely he will have a point!


    Anyway, I tried this with two QSC K8 and this sounds nice! But I can't figure out whether his sound is based on cab ON or OFF and, more important, where he switches cab ON / OFF. I tried this in OUTPUT but this doesn't seem to make any difference. http://www.thegearpage.net/boa…/kemper-main-out.1236456/



    http://www.thegearpage.net/boa…/kemper-main-out.1236456/

    There's no tonal difference in where you switch cabs on/off (output menu for monitor out or via the front panel globally). Cabs on/off is cabs on/off regarding sound.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

    OK Kempermaniac! But WHERE is that option for internal cabs, coming with the rig, turn OFF or On to hear the difference with my own live cab (a not great sounding 212 Marshall cab) Like Ingolf wrote: "Internal Kemper cab to PA mixer, no doubt sounds better"...

    Did you ever read the manual??? You can switch off the cab sim for monitor out with a tick box in the ouput section of the KPA. BTW: It makes no sense to switch cab sim on and off by only listening through a real cab. The real cab is already a cab (what a miracle), so there's no need for an additional cab sim from the KPA. So:


    When playing through a real cab, switch cabs off.
    When playing through everything else, which is not a real cab, switch cabs on.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

    I've found that it's generally better to switch cabs off when playing through a guitar cab, but I know that some users here find that they like to keep cabs on in those cases. It's certainly reasonable to try it both ways for yourself to see which you prefer.

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    Kempermaniac, yes I've read the manual and I've read the wiKPA (the last one BTW is much more clearer than the basic manual. Many American and English people don't seem to understand that reading an English manual can be a very hard, long and frustrating job for a Dutchman in order to understand everything not at least because of the bunch technical terms...! You don't have to translate anything...(No offense!!)

    I have to translate as much as you, cause I'm german. :)


    Sorry for my harsh words, but your issue is covered maybe a hundred times here in the forum and the manual is also very clear regarding your question. And...come on...your english isn't that bad if I read what and how much you're writing.


    Peace! <3

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

    I'll try again...for this suggestion:
    I'm on stage with only my Kemper and don't have a cab behind me. My guitarsignal will come through my Sennheiser EW 300 directly into my in ears from the mixer and the PA where the audience is.
    So I want to listen to that sound: an internal cab, matched with the rig-author. Additionally I then can exchange it (if I like) with some other internal cabs to see if there's a real improvement using one or another.