Question concerning Monitor cab off

    When I set Monitor cab to "off" in the output menu - I thought it wouldn't make any effect anymore if I switch the cab button in the stack area on or off while I listen to the sound that comes through my guitarbox, connected to the monitor output. But pressing the button still has an an effect on the sound and I don't understand why or what is the meaning. I thought the idea was that independent from the state in the stack the cab is generally switched off in the monitor output.
    What am I doin wrong? ?(
    Thx for any advice!

    Firstly , WELCOME !


    Secondly....the monitor off only turns off the cab section from the Monitor output. So for example....if youre playing the Kemper (KPA) through a guitar cab onstage as a monitor you're not 'double' cabbing ....if that makes sense ?

    It means that you can run your 'Monitor' output to your backline guitar cab without Cabinet simulation.


    If you turn off the CAB button on the front then what goes to the PA or other outputs will not have a Cab ....and will therefore sound TERRIBLE!(IMHO)


    Does that make sense?

    this makes perfect sense- I wanted to prevent double cabbing but why does the cabinet button in the stack section still have effect on the signal of the monitor output - that is my question.

    you write I monitor the overall output signal. But with monitor cab off in the output menu I shouldnt recognize any difference in the stack section between cab button turned on or off. Do you understand my point?

    Edited once, last by wayman ().

    The "cab off" is automagically calculated by the Kemper. Although it is automagically, it's just an approximation...as the Kemper doesn't know exactly what portion of the profile is the result of the cab's impact. I'm guessing that changes to the profile may make the Kemper calculate differently.

    If you I would do changes to the profile I'd agree with you. But I do not. i just need the cab on the main output - so I turn it on in the stack section. But turned on it changes the sound in the monitor output - not to the better. There is no reason that there is any influence there cause I even turned the amplifier off cause I'm using the preamp of my real amp as in insert with sent /return.

    Quote from wayman

    If you I would do changes to the profile I'd agree with you. But I do not. i just need the cab on the main output - so I turn it on in the stack section. But turned on it changes the sound in the monitor output - not to the better. There is no reason that there is any influence there cause I even turned the amplifier off cause I'm using the preamp of my real amp as in insert with sent /return.


    I mixed up your post and another one concerning a similar issue...but he adjusted cab parameters, which affected his "cab off" monitor output. But yeah, I think I recall noticing that turning cab on/off in the stack section could make a difference to monitor out with cab disabled. I dunno why. There are studio profiles, direct profiles, merged profiles...maybe they haven't been able to program it any other way, yet....or sumthin' 8-)

    Guys, thx for ur help anyway! Signalchai I was working with in this particular case:


    Gtr> Kemper input > direct out > Gtr preamp input > amp efx send > Kemper return > monitor out > amp efx return.


    Basicallly a cool thing for me at the moment, I can use my wonderful engl steve morse preamp physically with a looop from the Kemper stomp section before the signal arrives at the stack section but I can also leave the loop away what means I dont use the engl preamp - and choose a Kemper amplifier profile instead.
    Of course I know that the valveamp in the end of the amplifying chain colours the sound anothertime but I can live with that at the moment. But I'd like to feed the main output incl. delay to the mising console additionally for recording purpose. Therefore I would like to have a cab simulation for the main output - so turned a cab on in the stack section. but the monitor output of the kemper goes to the engl postamp and cabinet - so I don't want double cabbing and turned monitor cab off in the output chain. But its still in influence of the cab button in the stack section, I don't know why, Amplifier is turned off in the stack section.


    I'm just using a Mesa Boogie cab in the Stacksection in this setup + ofcourse the effects off the stomps.

    Hi wayman,


    that is not a bug, that is the normal behaviour and you've got good ears ;) You hear it drastically if you max high and low shift in the cab-section.


    As far as I know the Kemper only calculates one stereo sound with cab that you know as Master Stereo (or Mono). If you turn the cab off (either via monitor cab off or in the signal chain) the Kemper then calculates the cab off from your finished Master Stereo. There is no second calculation of all the delays etc. with a sound that doesn't have a cab. The cab is simply subtracted at the end.
    However you can grab the signal at various points in the calculating chain. For example you can get it after Stack or Mod. If you turn the cab off you then get the signal after the stack- (or mod-)section with cab and then the cab gets subtracted.


    Now you could ask: But, why? :D Well, just think about the processing power you would need to calculate two complete signals too achieve only a slightly better cab separation that most of the users haven't even heard of, yet...
    (That cursive written part is only my assumption that explains all those behaviours of the Kemper. If anybody from Kemper could confirm this, I would be glad :) )


    Is there a solution to your problem? Alter the cab so that you like your cab-on-sound. Turn the cab off for the monitor output and use the monitor eq in the output-section to change the sound coming from your real cab. I know that this is a workaround, but I think that should be the best way to not interfere with your sound on the main outs.


    Cheers and don't let those stuff spoil your fun playing ;)
    Stefan


    PS: That happens on studio and merged profiles. It affects direct profiles in the same way as soon as you add a cab - you don't even have to merge them for that behaviour. (I've just tested)

    My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guitars for what I told her they cost.

    Edited once, last by malleus ().

    thx very much Stefan, that is a really helpful answer though not exactly the one I hoped for. Your advice for a workaround is so far the best option though qualitiy is lost - and think not really necessariliy. You are talking about the effort to do 2 completly different calculations... well - lets come to this point:


    There are anyway different signals available - depending what you take in the output menu. With or without efx oder mod or dry or with stack. There is a parallel path for the bass players even. So there must be different calulations going on to fullfill the desires of different output signals. The monitor signal which indeed has some options could be with an option to leave the stack section out. That would make indeed a new signal path necessary... yeah - I not a programmist. How much processor power this would take away ? More than the other options we are already capable of?


    But call this thing monitor cab off while it is not really off is somehow misguiding. And the sound qualitiy is better when it would be really off! But ok, I will live with it :)

    Hm...I just tried on my rig with a 2x12 cab. I really can't hear a difference with or without cab engaged in the stack section. At least not on the 5 rigs in the performance I tried. I could hear the artifacts for a second or so after switching, but turning effects off, and pause playing for a second at the time of switching...I couldn't hear a difference. This is with the 5.0 beta.

    Quote from Trazan

    Hm...I just tried on my rig with a 2x12 cab. I really can't hear a difference with or without cab engaged in the stack section. At least not on the 5 rigs in the performance I tried. I could hear the artifacts for a second or so after switching, but turning effects off, and pause playing for a second at the time of switching...I couldn't hear a difference. This is with the 5.0 beta.

    It didn't change with firmware updates. There is only a minor difference from a direct profile to the same profile with cab as the algorithm that subtracts the cab afterwards seems to be really precise. However you will notice a huge difference if you add a cab and turn it off and then change the low and high shift to +5.0 even though the cab shouldn't be "active".


    @wayman Regarding the processing power that's just my assumption. I can't think of another reason why Kemper is subtracting the cab afterwards and not calculating two independent signal paths (one with and one without cab). Grabbing a signal in between for stack and mod shouldn't cost too much processing power afaik ;)

    My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guitars for what I told her they cost.

    I want to bump this thread to see if there has been any resolve to this issue. I have the Kemper hooked up to a passive cab. I have the internal monitor cab off for this situation. I do notice turning the stack cab on and off there is a difference in my passive cab. When it is off it seems to be more open and defined. I would like to have a cab on in the stack section due to patching into a PA or a DAW. Is there a workaround or open ticket or are people just dealing with it? Thanks in advance.