FRFR cabs

    Sofar I used my Powered Kemper with a 4x12 300W Line 6 cabinet. Not very pleased with it. For a while now I'm looking for a real matching cab with my amp. Everyone is praising so much the use of FRFR speakers. OK, but then you should always make use of cab-sim with every preset that you make or use. As long as the right cabinet for this matter can be attached it would be no problem. But the used cabs in a profile are not always present to choose from


    Anyway, I guess that I would be better off with a FRFR speaker cab. If I would use, let's say, a Marshall 4x12 cab I would be stuck to only that kind of speakers for every song ...right?


    So in my search I came upon quite expensive FRFR speakercabs: the Mission Gemini 2 (amplified) for use through the main outs of the Kemper. And since I would like te play stereo to benefit the new delays (among others...!) I would need two of them, for sound spreading reasons.


    But I could also use the unpowered versions: Gemini 1-P. That requires an extra stereo valve amp to the main outs. And since I have a powered Kemper (mono however) it seems like overkill. I should have bought me an unpowered version in the first place for this matter...But still, if an all valve stereo amp would be so much better...then.....


    Anyway, anyone to comment on this? Is FRFR really better? Is Mission for this a perfect (?) solution? Does anyone have any experience with these cabs (powered or unpowered) And what be the best options? Or what other cabs might deliver the same best possible sound for the Kemper.

    Quote from theplayer

    Anyway, I guess that I would be better off with a FRFR speaker cab. If I would use, let's say, a Marshall 4x12 cab I would be stuck to only that kind of speakers for every song ...right?

    Yes.


    I go FRFR because I want my sound to be consistent. On any decent FRFR system, like any PA, any pair of studio monitors or studio headphones.


    One thing to consider: you need way more power on the FRFR than on a tube amp. The FRFR may by no means add any further distortion or clipping. It will instantly kill the sound. So you need more headroom, more power and even better: high efficiency speakers.

    Ne travaillez jamais.

    Quote from SpinnerDeluxe

    One thing to consider: you need way more power on the FRFR than on a tube amp. The FRFR may by no means add any further distortion or clipping. It will instantly kill the sound. So you need more headroom, more power and even better: high efficiency speakers.

    This I don't understand: way more power? kill the sound? need more headroom? add any distortion or clipping?
    Does it mean it's bad to choose FRFR?


    My aim is to get me 2 mono cabs (like the unpowered Mission Gemini 1-P) in conjunction with an all valve stereo amp, connected to the main outs of the Kemper.


    I could also go for the powered cab versions (like the Mission Engineering Gemini 1) but that comes with a digital power amp and I wonder if this can sound like a real all valve amp.


    Seehttps://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GM1


    and


    https://missionengineering.com…emini-1-p/?v=796834e7a283

    Quite simple: a tube poweramp is NOT FRFR, a digital / solid state poweramp IS FRFR.


    In most cases a profile consists of the whole guitaramp-chain: tube preamp + tube poweramp + speaker. If you want to amplify this signal at best, you want FRFR as far as possible.

    Tubes will colour the sound. And while a 100 watt amp is a monster, or a 30 watt class A, a PA style monitor needs 800 or a 1000 watts to sound loud and clean, no nasty distortion added, unlike a valve power amp, which will distort, and make us happy when it does.

    Never too old for rock'n'roll

    Like 1

    The concept for going FRFR is this. The Kemper, is producing the entire tone of that Mic'd Tube amp, via the profile. That is amp AND speaker. So, you want that FRFR solution to just amplify that with as close to 100% accuracy as possible. So a transparent, FRFR solution. You aren't looking for the FRFR amp and speaker to "sound like a real tube amp', because what the Kemper is outputting is already doing that. You just want it to make it louder and NOT lose or add some frequencies, thus impacting that near perfect representation of the profiled amp. So the Kemper provides the tube amp tone and feel, and the amplification just makes it accurately loud.


    All amps, when at or near their max output levels will clip. MOST SS amps, when they clip, sound very, very unpleasant. Tube amps, when they clip we humans find as a pleasant sound. But with any modeler, or profiler, you don't want that output amp to clip, generally speaking, cause it will change the tone. SS amp, clipping will change it badly, sounding bad. Tube amp clipping, may not sound bad, but it will change the tone.

    Quote from theplayer

    My aim is to get me 2 mono cabs (like the unpowered Mission Gemini 1-P) in conjunction with an all valve stereo amp, connected to the main outs of the Kemper.

    You can actually use 2 with the KPA power amp using this cable. It won't be stereo because the KPA's power is only mono, but it will give you dispersion if that's all you're after.


    Deciding between the Gemini models, here is something I touched on just a moment ago:

    Quote from MementoMori

    When Bryan Turner reviewed the Mission Gemini for Guitar Magazine, he had a powered and unpowered Kemper. To compare side-by-side, they got a Gemini 1 (110W powered speaker) and the Gemini 1-P (250W passive). They balanced the volume between them and the rest of the guys in his band didn't think it was even close to compare. The powered Gemini had, according to him, far and away the best punch and feel. He returned the Gemini 1-P the next day and focused the review on the powered Gemini. Given, I knew of that story before purchasing the Gemini 1-P and my powered Kemper, and for a person like me it isn't the end of the world, but that story is pretty consistent with what I've heard from a number of industry professionals. They much prefer providing their own power, be it through a speaker or a power amp like the Matrix GT1000FX.

    Basically, using the power from an FRFR amp like the Gemini, Atomic CLR, or Matrix FR12 seem to be much more preferred than the Kemper's power amp. That being said, I'm still quite happy with my powered KPA and Gemini 1-P. It's FRFR but has more of a guitar cab feel where a lot of other FRFR solutions, while great, feel like PA speakers.


    If you're curious about other solutions, there was a good thread with good info about it some months back. Here is my post, which summarizes most of my exhaustive research before I settled on my Gemini (happily).

    Quote from MementoMori

    You can actually use 2 with the KPA power amp using this cable. It won't be stereo because the KPA's power is only mono, but it will give you dispersion if that's all you're after.
    Deciding between the Gemini models, here is something I touched on just a moment ago:

    Basically, using the power from an FRFR amp like the Gemini, Atomic CLR, or Matrix FR12 seem to be much more preferred than the Kemper's power amp. That being said, I'm still quite happy with my powered KPA and Gemini 1-P. It's FRFR but has more of a guitar cab feel where a lot of other FRFR solutions, while great, feel like PA speakers.
    If you're curious about other solutions, there was a good thread with good info about it some months back. Here is my post, which summarizes most of my exhaustive research before I settled on my Gemini (happily).

    I run unpowered KPA to matrix gt800FX (until I can find a used 1ru gt1000fx) to a passive Atomic CLR. DEFINATELY has that amp/cab feel.

    Quote from Shark Diver

    So, I'm curious if the difference was all the power section - or if the cab/speakers had the most effect here. I would prefer to try the non-powered Gemini with say the Fryette Power Station and rather than comparing to the Kemper power amp. Honestly, just like the look better, and it would give me more options to try different power amps.

    You could, though I know the guys at Mission Engineering spent a lot of time refining their power amp (and it's 97% efficient). My position at the time couldn't justify the cost but I really want to try it for comparisons sake. I'm sure it's every bit as good as they say it is. @ashtweth has a powered Gemini 2 and gushes about it all the time.

    So I have a question about the FRFR cabs and solutions you guys have been discussing.
    I have a mission gemini 2-P. Its unpowered, passive and I run an ax fx 2 through it with a matrix 1000 power amp and it sounds great! Exactly what I would expect. I have recently purchased a Kemper though.
    I got the Kemper powered rack model so I would not have to worry about getting another power amp. The Kemper sounds beautiful in my studio, and the same in headphones. I ran it into a normal cab and it sounded good as well but I havent did any tweaking for that. However when I went to plug it into my gemini 2P i found that the power amp is mono, one cable output. My gemini 2P has a left and right output. I have contacted the company about the split cables you have mentioned and will try that solution..but the issue im getting is when i run from my kemper, into the gemini, left or right input, i get a very bassy sound on all the rigs. Very noticeable on clean tones. Im wondering if this is caused by the cab being stereo and the kemp being mono. and its pushing too much into one output when it should be split? and would this split cable help that?


    Thanks for reading all that! :)

    This I found :
    quote:
    The multiple driver and crossover configuration allows the Gemini 2-P to be used with two channel external power amplifiers and guitar modeling applications to provide a stereo configuration in a single cabinet. Make the most of stereo effects and multiple signal paths in your modeler. Effects such as stereo panning, ping pong delays, and rotating speaker emulations all work great with the Gemini 2-P. Use with parallel effects chains and cab simulators to send different emulations to the two channels.
    A single cabinet can be used with a two channel external power amplifier to create a perfect small stereo rig for recording and performance or as a monitor. Guitarists using rack mount guitar processors such as the Fractal Audio-Axe-FX, Avid Eleven Rack, Kemper Profiling Amp, or Line 6 Pod HD PRO can use the_Gemini H 19' rack head and build the perfect modeling half or full stack. Connection to the amp is via a combo jack that allows you to connect with either a lockable Speakon connector if your amplifier has one, or a standard 1/4' instrument cable._The Gemini 2-P comes with sturdy rubber feet on both the base and one side, and can be used with the speakers in side by side mode for normal stereo, or vertical mode for PA style use.
    Unuote.


    You can define on main output as "mono right" and the other to "mono left" (output menue) than you have a cable per Cab.
    Be aware the Kemper is Mono . The Kemper is basically mono. Some effects can form a stereo signal

    i tried several thing,
    RCF PA Loudaspeaker Art312, very nice clean tone, you can ear all details but hi-gain profile doesn,t sound right, it missing the feel the dispersion, missing the real thing when playing live.


    i tried tube amp with 2x12 closed cab V30, very nice for hi-gain tone, but mid gain, clean tone, you miss all superb details that FRFR can give you with amp class D.


    I want both because i am playing live with band all the time (no FOH).


    I found the solution: really
    Mission Gemini 2, it does both and the secret of that is the EmPower adjustment, mind is set at 70% FRFR.
    It turn the cab sound like a real one, superbe dispersion, superb Hi-gain tone and feel and keeping all subtiles details of effects especially with clean tone profiles.


    guys, it really does very well the job.
    I am use to play hi-gain with MEsa Dual Recto amp and cab, it match it almost to 97% i will say.


    My Kemper is unpowered, so the Gemini 2 have 2x class D amps and with the TRS to TR, TR cable you became fully stereo, very nice.


    i bought the Gemini 2 Live model, the Power supply air fan is a bit noisy when you don't play.
    i fixed that problem by using an high quality 24V 10a power supply with no fan, i just installed it inside and reconnect the cables to it.
    No noise, no heat, no issue.
    It took me 2 hours to do that and i save 550$ cdn by not buying the Gemini 2 Studio model (that have an no air fan Power supply).
    i did know exactly what i was doing ( i am working with electro-technicians), if you don't know, buy the studio model.