Setting up a triplet delay

I find it astonishing that it is possible to discuss the necessity of triplets as a musical expression.

Come on guys, calm down, it's already there (Almost) Instant shuffle (no dots!!!) on your Kemper:
All you have to do is use a quarter note delay program. Now use the tap button and start tapping Quarternotetriplets. Voila: There you have your eighth note triplets If the tempo changes tap again!!!
Now at least you don't have to stay angry until CK decides to implement it, right???

HTH

You are quite correct Sharry,having looked into this a bit deeper I cant get the Kemper delays to play triplets at all.This is the only time I've had any criticism of the unit,bizarre!
Approximate aint good enough Mrs-Zambesi but thanks for the approximate fix anyway.

for example, take a 4/4 signature. the difference in between Triplets and Dotted notes is: the 1/8 dotted notes sit on one of the 16 divisions of a bar, whereas the 1/4 trips sit beside it. they sound similar because the relative note positions are similar but they are not the same. since the triplets will not fall onto straight notes, they stick out sonically and create a different type of groove. also, the position of the triplets repeats every 2 beats whereas the position of dotted notes does every 3 bars.

Quote from niloc

You are quite correct Sharry,having looked into this a bit deeper I cant get the Kemper delays to play triplets at all.This is the only time I've had any criticism of the unit,bizarre!
Approximate aint good enough Mrs-Zambesi but thanks for the approximate fix anyway.

It's not approximate unless your tapping is only approximate!!
edit: The Third note of an eight note triplet (the shuffle note) is exactly where the second note of a quarter note triplet is.

Maybe one part of the problem lies in the expectation that the triplet consists of three delay repeats. But that's not true because the first note of the triplet is the plugged note. Therefore the triplet constists of one plugged note and two delay-repeats at the right time.

And: of course 1/8 dotted is something completely different than a triplet! Let's do some maths regarding a triplet: The time you have for playing a triplet is 1/4. Let's say you're playing a triplet between the 1 and the 2 of a bar. The distance between these two 1/4 is 1. The first note of the triplet is exactly on the first 1/4 of the bar. Now two notes must follow which have exactly the same distance to each other as well as to the next 1/4 (the 2 in the bar). Now it's easy to comprehend: first note on 1, second note on 1.33, third note on 1.66. You can easily see that this has nothing to do with 1/8 notes because they would sit on 1 or 1.5 or 2 or 2.5 and so on...

Quote from mrs-zambesi

Now at least you don't have to stay angry until CK decides to implement it, right???

I am not "angry" just wondering

I need no lecture what a triole is. Even I made some possible missunderstanding statement before. I wanted to mention that a 1/4 triplet is closer to a 3/16 than a 1/8 triplets I was asking for (maybe the translation was unlucky)

If there is a technical problem I would be the last who would not understand. But a discussion if triplets are sensefull or not I could not follow.
It's like a saying from Loriot: "You can live without a mops (kind of a dog) but it's senseless."
Dotted notes are quite another sort of beer.

BTW: If you play live then its not comfortable (for me it's impossible) to tap in a different tempo as you count in for the band - Isn't it?

And let me add (as we're talking about dotted 1/8): They also have nothing to do with triplets because a dotted 1/8 note constist of three 1/16 notes. 1/16 notes sit on 1 and 1.25 and 1.5 and 1.75.

Quote from Sharry

I wanted to mention that a 1/4 triplet is closer to a 3/16 than a 1/8 triplets

I'm afraid that this is wrong too. What you call a 1/4 triplet is played over two 1/4. It is called 1/4 triplet because it's closer to 1/4 beats. An 1/8 triplet is played only over one 1/4 and it's called 1/8 triplet because it's closer to 1/8 beats.

Quote from Kempermaniac

I'm afraid that this is wrong too. What you call a 1/4 triplet is played over two 1/4. It is called 1/4 triplet because it's closer to 1/4 beats. An 1/8 triplet is played only over one 1/4 and it's called 1/8 triplet because it's closer to 1/8 beats.

You should read my posting in connection to CK's answer for my request for 1/8Triplets.

BTW: at 120 bpm 3/16 is 375 ms, 1/4 Triplet is 333,33 ms , 1/8 triplet is 166,67 ms

This year I attached a short table wich shows connectionship of tempo , note values and time in a 4/4 bar tune.
This topic keeps me already busy for longer

Quote from Sharry

You should read my posting in connection to CK's answer for my request for 1/8Triplets.
BTW: at 120 bpm 3/16 is 375 ms, 1/4 Triplet is 333,33 ms , 1/8 triplet is 166,67 ms

I've now read your posting in connection to CK's answer but that doesn't change my mind. Maybe we're meaning the same but the terms you use are misleading. E.g. you said that dotted 1/8 notes are at best a 1/4 triplet. I know what you're trying to say with "at best" but: I think what you mean with the term 1/4 triplet is playing a triplet over the time of one 1/4. If so, this is called an 1/8 triplet, whereas a "real" 1/4 triplet is played over two 1/4.

Quote from Kempermaniac

g. you said that dotted 1/8 notes are at best a 1/4 triplet.

Ýep we have same meaning
The correct meaning should be 1/4 triplet is quite closer to a 3/16 (than a 1/8).
At german "ist bestenfalls näher an 1/4 Tr (als an 1/8 Tr)"

I am playing also in a big band with lot of jazz tunes. My knowledge about is better than my english

Sharry, mein Gutster, punktierte Achtel sind nicht näher an einer Vierteltriole. Eine Vierteltriole wird über die Dauer von zwei Vierteln gespielt, eine Achteltriole über die Dauer von einem Viertel. Daher können punktierte Achtel auch nicht näher an einer Vierteltriole sein. Bei punktierten Achteln spielst du doch pro Beat nur zwei Noten, was eindeutig näher an drei Noten pro Viertel ist (wie bei einer Achteltriole) als an drei Noten über zwei Viertel (wie bei einer Vierteltriole).

Das ist es, was ich meinte, als ich sagte, dass du eventuell die falschen Begriffe benutzt. Wenn du von einer Vierteltriole sprichst, meinst du wahrscheinlich eine Triole über eine Viertel. Und genau da läge dann dein sprachlicher Fehler oder aber deine Wissenslücke. Wenn dir jemand sagt, dass du ne Vierteltriole spielen sollst und du spielst sie lediglich über ein Viertel, dann schaut er dich komisch an...

Sorry for the quick journey in german, guys.

Oder meinst du, dass der zweite Schlag einer Vierteltriole (so wie ich sie oben beschrieben habe) näher am zweiten Schlag einer punktierten Achtel liegt? Das würde mir dann einleuchten.

@kempermania - the language in this part of the forum is exclusively english. if you feel the need to address a topic in german either open a thread in the german section or make use of a PM

Quote from Kempermaniac

Oder meinst du, dass der zweite Schlag einer Vierteltriole (so wie ich sie oben beschrieben habe) näher am zweiten Schlag einer punktierten Achtel liegt? Das würde mir dann einleuchten.

Yep in this way. Let me tell you with this words. I was not able to tranfer the ironic background of this sentence in english.

Quote from Sharry

I need no lecture what a triole is. Even I made some possible missunderstanding statement before. I wanted to mention that a 1/4 triplet is closer to a 3/16 than a 1/8 triplets I was asking for (maybe the translation was unlucky)

BTW: If you play live then its not comfortable (for me it's impossible) to tap in a different tempo as you count in for the band - Isn't it?

Well, I know you said you did not need a lecture, but anyway.... To be honest, I do not understand that first sentence with some things being closer to other things especially when (at least to me, YMMV) the important information is that a quarter note triplet is EXACTLY twice as long as an eighth note triplet, which is why it works perfectly to tap them in. Now, I agree that there may be situations when that is not so easy and of course my method does not work at all if you're using other time based effects that would be affected by that odd tapping (In this case I would probably use an external delay pedal until shuffled delays get implemented) But there must be some people that just need that "simple" shuffled delay to which I tried to present a little workaround.
One suggestion if you count in for the band, because I think that that is indeed quite easy: Try to think:" (Daa daa daa - daa daa daa) - One Two - Three Four" with the daa daa daas being the quarter triplets (you only think them) and while you think them you tap the tempo (like a madman)

Quote from mrs-zambesi

But there must be some people that just need that "simple" shuffled delay to which I tried to present a little workaround.
One suggestion if you count in for the band, because I think that that is indeed quite easy: Try to think:" (Daa daa daa - daa daa daa) - One Two - Three Four" with the daa daa daas being the quarter triplets (you only think them) and while you think them you tap the tempo (like a madman)

I hope for more people which would like to have triplets to choose for time operated functions. As far I know - in the older delays there were the option for triplets which was canceled with the new form of delays..
Maybe not with heavy metal fans wich seems here to be a majority but people who like other music which is not bader.

Your suggestion is nice but is not really practicable in live situation and no substitut for a logical function to be able to choose triplets with a computer system.
You need not to explain how I have to play and to understand triplets. I used it many in the jazz formations I was playing.

I can live without triplets but I do not think it is sensefull.