DI Profile + Power Amp + Cab: Does it feel like the real deal?

    Quote from richaxes

    The only little flaw in your concept is the fact how different every guitar cab sounds, and how similar can heads sound through the same cab.
    I'm sure there is a reason why Christoph originally decided to go more in the FRFR direction, and it must be the ability of really faithfully reproducing tones, what you wouldn't be able to do with a guitar cab that's fitted with a given speaker and that's all. That speaker has some characteristics and response character, and you can't get rid of that distinctive sound. Let's say, that you would want to use a Plexi with a Greenback cab through your real cab which is a V30 cab... your results just won't be true enough.

    Point taken. I suppose the type of cab might limit the tonal possibilities so one would probably have to own 2-3 cabs for full flexibility. Having said that, one might ultimately move on to very a high quality FRFR cab.

    Quote from xtcblue

    Point taken. I suppose the type of cab might limit the tonal possibilities so one would probably have to own 2-3 cabs for full flexibility. Having said that, one might ultimately move on to very a high quality FRFR cab.

    The latter one is the direction I chose and I'm still in the "making it come true" phase, but results that I'm getting by using my KPA through hi-fi speakers and a JVC hi-fi amp, all from the '80s, is convincing enough not to make me hurry too much :)

    Use your ears, not your mathematical sense.

    Quote from xtcblue

    Point taken. I suppose the type of cab might limit the tonal possibilities so one would probably have to own 2-3 cabs for full flexibility. Having said that, one might ultimately move on to very a high quality FRFR cab.


    My Kemper is actually in the mail from Germany, so I'm in the same boat as you, reading all I can until it shows up...


    In a different thread where users found out that different clean tone fed into the same profiled cabinet sounds almost identical, CK jumped in and he said that the cabinet is about 70% of the composition of any tone and particulary clean tone. He also said that in some profiling session they where able to get 2 different amps to sound the same when fed into the same cabinet... this is kind of a revelation for me as to why some modeler definitely sound "better" than other, why IR becomes so popular and why the Kemper seems to me to be in different league, but also at the same time it sounds like the end of guitar cabinet if you really want to take the most out of the machine. Because even if you use a neutral poweramp your 4X12 will color every profile the same way and it will never sound the same as if you go direct and then your back at saying well if you want that tone then you will need to mic your Kemper feeding your poweramp and your 4x12 cabinet. So FRFR seems to be the future now, but the question is which FRFR is the most appropriate to the Kemper and give you that amp in the room feel... maybe kemper should actually invest into the perfect powered speaker instead of the perfect linear power amp...

    I'd agree with all the above. Point being that guitar cabs are not meant to reproduce guitar tones, they are meant to reproduce (in a characteristic way) a head's signal; the difference is critical!
    As I already wrote, XTC, the non linearity in the interaction between poweramp and cab is one of the most meaningful aspects of a guitar sound. A modeller/KPA is designed to already take this into account, and the software takes care of these non-linearities. All you have to do is reproduce it in the most possible linear way.
    At this stage, you shall bear in mind that the idea that all the FRFR system sound the same is, paradoxically, an ideological false. I believe that most players who have not found satisfaction using a modeller with a monitor/stage monitor/active cab:

    • had chosen a bad preset/profile and/or
    • had it tweaked improperly and/or
    • had a bad sounding cab and/or
    • had it tweaked improperly and/or.

    before taking scientific/serious conclusions over this, one should IMO be sure to exclude all the above.
    This being said, is perfectly possible that a player is happy with a KPA/Axe-Fx, a poweramp and a guitar cab: this has in fact happened several times :)


    One last note: to be sure to exploit all KPA's potential, 2-3 cabs are no way enough! You should rather own all the possible cabs profiled (or profilable! (?)) in the world! ;) :thumbup:

    The non linearity of the interaction in between the amp and the cabinet is a very good point and this is where cabinet IR are most likely limited where device like the Kemper or Topedo shine...


    I guess all of this is so new that no company yet jumped in saying here is an FRFR device built to work with guitar modeler and here is why, however Fractal is working on one...


    If you think that every amp is designed to work with a(or a series of) cabinet(s) then you have at least as much different cabinets than there is amp on the market :)

    Thanks for all the responses guys. I guess its about time for me to get the KPA and test it out for myself. I doubt I will be disappointing by using it with a cab. I will probably be using it 90% of the time through studio monitors anyway, so I hope it makes me spend more time improving my playing rather than disturbing the neighbors and giving myself hearing loss like my beloved tube amps. From clips I have heard on the net and from reading forum responses, its definitely does sound/feel like a real amp. For a long time I held back purchasing the 'other' expensive modeller since I felt it wasn't 100% there. But with the KPA I think I am convinced!

    Quote

    I guess all of this is so new that no company yet jumped in saying here
    is an FRFR device built to work with guitar modeler and here is why,
    however Fractal is working on one...

    True, firms are apparently just becoming aware of the new market opening ...


    If you're following the Fractal or the TGP forums you might have heard of at least three options, one of which has not been meant for modellers but has revealed phenomenal for the task: RCF NX12 SMA (or even NX10 FWIW :) )


    As for cabs specifically designed for modellers, people are anxiously waiting for the
    "Coincident Linear Reference" designed by Jay Mitchell for Atomic Amps, while some have already tried the cabs from Matrix, the British firm known for their linear poweramps.
    The interesting thing is that both will apparently be available as passive cabs as well, thus fitting the need of people interested in the Kemper poweramp or already owning a Matrix or any other poweramp.
    It's a good time for considering the digital sound! :rolleyes:

    Quote from viabcroce

    ... isn't it the one you're currently using? Looking forward to trying it when I come to Freiburg! 8)

    Tell me before, I leave it always at rehearsal, at home I use my monitors or the Marshall.

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff