Kemper Profiling Guitar?

    Ok guys, I know that I'm dreaming, but bare with me for a second.....What about a Guitar that let you Profile other guitars instead of modeling them? You could use a device like the E-bow to send a signal that could profile the response of the guitar. Obviously it would be just a single PU switch position, you would need to profile all the positions...but still....do you think it could be possible? Think about having profiles of 1954 Strat, 1959 LP.....


    CK: if I gave you the idea and you ever do it I want the serial# 1 !!! :D :D :D

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    LOL, it could be possible theoretically.


    Why not? If CK can get all the DSP's, converters etc. in a small solid body, I guess it could work.


    The hard part would be getting the right woods from manufacturers (I think the guitar should be made of wood, not metal or plastic), precise setup of intonation, hardware etc. - in other words: sounds like a major pain in the ass to me...

    I can see one big problem with that:
    Part of the feel of a guitar are things like body shape, weight and first of all the neck shape. I do play differently on a strat than I do on a Les Paul and that is due to the different scale, string tension and neck shape. You can't model that I'm afraid ;)

    I don't see why you couldn't do it.


    Actually, you'd want an outboard device (computer?) for creating profiles. That could save space and weight in the guitar. The guitar electronics would be playback only. The outboard profiler could include an e-bow-like device to drive the strings for its input.

    Quote from Garrincha

    I can see one big problem with that:
    Part of the feel of a guitar are things like body shape, weight and first of all the neck shape. I do play differently on a strat than I do on a Les Paul and that is due to the different scale, string tension and neck shape. You can't model that I'm afraid ;)

    That is true also for midi and modeling guitars, but profiling could at least give you the Tone! Even better, it could be an outboard rack unit that let you play with your preferred guitar (and that solves also the problem on how to power it up)

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    Quote from ba_hill

    Have you checked out the Line6 Variax?


    Variax


    They're modellers not profilers but they're similar to what you're describing.

    I know them very well, :rolleyes: , but profiling could be better (as it is, IMHO, compared to modeling amps)

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    I like the idea, but i dont think you would even need a special guitar for this. All you would need is the a KPA like analysis of the dynamics of guitar output signal in combination with EQ matching. Similar to using plugins like ozone you could analyze a target guitar, then a source guitar and apply the differential curve to your source guitar signal. I am pretty sure this could work even with the KPA.

    Why not just profile the guitar and hold it in the KPA? Select which guitar profile you want just like a cab. This is very similar to what Roland has with the VG99 and GR55, though as models instead of actual profiles. Actually creating a profile though, hmm ....... 8|

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    Quote from ba_hill

    Have you checked out the Line6 Variax?


    Variax


    They're modellers not profilers but they're similar to what you're describing.


    I got one very soon after they came out. It is a pity but it is in its gig bag more than a year and a half now, getting more and more dusty.


    I still prefer to play with my originals. :)

    Quote from tylerhb

    I like the idea, but i dont think you would even need a special guitar for this. All you would need is the a KPA like analysis of the dynamics of guitar output signal in combination with EQ matching. Similar to using plugins like ozone you could analyze a target guitar, then a source guitar and apply the differential curve to your source guitar signal. I am pretty sure this could work even with the KPA.


    The problem with this approach is you'd have to do that with your own personal Les Paul and have that 500.000 $ Burst connected to the Kemper as well. Otherwise you can't measure the differential curve. And it would work only if you are using that exact guitar you did the measurement with.


    The Fishman Aura used to work pretty similar only for acoustic guitars. It would make a piezo equipped acoustic sound like a mic'd one. But it would only give the true sound of the target guitar if you use the same guitar as the source. Otherwise the diffferential curve and IR's wouldn't make an exact match. I still think that system is great since everything is better than the infamous piezo sound. But it wouldn't always sound exactely like the real guitar. And that would be the point in a "guitar profiler". We have enough guitars that sound pretty close to a '59 Burst. To make that interesting it has to be titts on.

    Quote from Stemast

    I got one very soon after they came out. It is a pity but it is in its gig bag more than a year and a half now, getting more and more dusty.


    I still prefer to play with my originals. :)


    I have one of the Tyler ones. Bloody awfull guitar, I would sell it but would feel guilty about someone else having the lemon that it is!

    Quote from Garrincha

    The problem with this approach is you'd have to do that with your own personal Les Paul and have that 500.000 $ Burst connected to the Kemper as well. Otherwise you can't measure the differential curve. And it would work only if you are using that exact guitar you did the measurement with.

    No, since the target and source are simply translated to absolute values you could even import and export the target curves like you can in ozone. You only need to keep the guitar that you want to transform into something the target. I just gave it try with ozone one hour ago. Recorded a sample with a strat than recorded the same with my high gain humbucker guitar. Then matched the Humbucker to sound like a strat. The result was pretty nice, the eq was dead on. But as a strat has a whole different dynamic curve and sustain which ozone cannot capture, the result was not 100%. But if i would send you that eq curve you could import it and match your own guitar to that sound. So, basically it would be possible.

    Yes, Till. That's exactly the reason why I'm talking about "profiling" and not "tone matching" (LOL :D ). I believe the core differences remains the same, Profiling capture also the dynamic, the range and (for amps) the "feel". It would be wonderful to get the same for Guitars. 8o :P :P

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    Quote from ba_hill

    Have you checked out the Line6 Variax?


    Variax


    They're modellers not profilers but they're similar to what you're describing.


    They stink. I tried one with an HD500 a few months ago. The 12 string, acoustic, and banjo models were ok. The electric modeled guitars weren't that different to me. There were Strats, Teles, Les Pauls, Rickenbackers, etc. and they sounded the same for the most part.


    I'm sure some sort of device could be developed to put under your strings or between the pickups to capture most of the essence of a guitar. As far as different sonic characteristics of wood species, neck material, etc. some sort of tweaks like the Tube Shape, Character, Power Sagging the Kemper has for amps and cabinets could be utilized to get you in the neighborhood.


    I'm sure something like this will be available in our lifetime.


    If someone told me 5 years ago a device like the Kemper could exist, I would have thought they were nuts.

    I think that people have different opinions in this matter. I play a variax and I couldn't be more happy. The tricky part is to imagine having these different guitars in your hands. Like someone said in an earlier post, you don't play the same with a les paul or a strat. So if you chose "strat" on a variax (or whatevery modeling guitar) you have to pretend playing a strat and play straty things ;) Same goes for the other models. If you do this, the guitar will sound different.


    There are other attempts to this, like the Firebird X from Gibson or the new "Gamechanger" from Ernie Ball. But IMO both couldn't keep up with the variax.


    The only thing thats not so good about the older Variax models is the guitar itsself. But many people have transplanted the electronics into another body. And the new James Tyler stuff plays really great.


    So this is possible and I believe CKemper could make an awesome instrument if he teams up with someone that knows how to built guitars.

    Well I have a Firebird X and a Tyler variax and the Firebird is a much better guitar thats for sure.


    The build quality of the variax is awful, it feels awful to play, it doesn't sound that good and there are serious noise issues when powered from the digital lead. Possibly the worse guitar I have ever purchased. I sent it back to Line 6 as I thought that I had a bad one and they sent it back saying it was normal!