try out a Fishman Loudbox Mini.
Ok, I will. The problem with acousticguitar-amps is, they still don't have those new, lightweight class-D poweramps and also with most of them I buy a lot of things that I won't need (starting with Hi-Z preamp, tonestack and above all reverb and chorus effects).
At the moment I am thinking about the SCHERTLER SIDE or DAVID or AER COMPACT 60 . All of them are quite a pricetag, but maybe worth testing.
My experience has been that opinions are all over the place regarding which amps sound good and which don't. You have to try them personally, as we all have differing tastes, styles, playing characteristics.
You have to try them personally
This is certainly the best solution. But how could this be done:
1) You can hunt around and find one here, wait until you find another one there and try to remember how the first candidate did sound like. This might take months and years to find the right one and it needs a good memory for sound.
2) You can buy them online all at once and return those that you don't like. That's nice if you have cash enough under your pillow.
3) You can buy a train ticket and go to the headquarter of one of those large onlinestores and hope that they have the majority of your candidates in store. And then add ticket and hotel to the price of your speaker.
I still think it is a good idea to exchange some ideas before you go shopping. As far as I see it, only the ATOMIC AMP and the LINE6 STAGESOURCE are dedicated developments for our purpose. All the others are optimized for different applications.
I know that Guitar Center in the US has a 30 day return policy, but perhaps you don't have such a dealer near you. If not, then I guess you're doing the best you can by soliciting opinions. I still say that proper EQ can make a huge difference though, so make sure that capability is in your options. Also, regarding extra effects in the gear after the KPA - I've actually found that the Bose ToneMatch effects are a nice complement to that of the KPA. It gives me dual delays, chorus, etc.
Some like the L1 and some don't. I personally find it acceptable for my uses, especially when EQ'd to my taste. Of course, I have the model 2 with ToneMatch, so I can't really comment on the other flavors. However, if you're looking at the compact version then I'd definitely check out the Fishman SoloAmp too ...
Yesterday I continued my search for FRFR solutions. I tested Yamaha DXR 12, LD Systems LDEB 122a - both sounded totally crap, useless for my taste. Another option was way better - HK pro 10xa. Very tiny but powerfull. Worth to have a closer look.
Then I borrowed 2 APG 8" and APG 12" from a friend (PA Company). What a difference. These are passiv monitors. I used my Matrix GT800FX for power amp. Wow - cristal clear. 8" is maybe a little small. But the price tag is way out of what I could accept anyway. My friend says the 8" version is about 1000 Euro a piece. I didn't ask about the 12 " version anymore. Regardsless how they sound (very good), not my deal. After playing a while I switched back to the cheap Altos.
It sounded as if somebody threw a heavy blanket over the speakers. All the clarity gone and a honky midrange added. Not really an improvement. But after a 2 minutes this impression vanished and it sounded somehow better. Yes - in a way even better than the expencive high tech APGs. It just sounded more like a real amp in the room.
I than decided to take one of the Altos to a jam session later on. I am totally convinced, that the Altos are a serious option for everybody who is looking for a budget solution. I had to struggle (musicwise) against 2 other guitarplayer (both with tube amps). The Alto monitor was standing on the floor and it still filled the room. I had to stay a step sidewards of the speaker in order to not go deaf.
Before I finally will try the so often mentioned RCF NX, I am still interested in other cheaper solution. Which ones would come close to the RCFs. I also think, the concept of using coax speaker is the way to go, because the spread the sound very nice. They seem to be ideal for guitar tones. Any recommendations for me?
Today I got one RCF NX-12SMA. Spent the whole day tweaking and testing, also doing a new, more thorough profile of my amp and then I did the toughest test:
GUITAR
> LEHLE SWITCHER
>> KPA+RCF NX-12SMA
>> just my amp (FENDER EC VIBROCHAMP)
Now, seven hours later, I am just tired... 
What I can say so far:
Ok, so much about my toughest test today. But the RCF NX-12SMA really seems to be a good speaker! Not much hizz, even response when you walk around it. And it still sounds quite nice when you look directly into its face - no harsh yelling.
It's just that they are a bit big and ... pricey.
Did you had it laying on the floor? If you want more of "amp in the room" try with the box standing on the floor, it changes the bass response quite a bit....
It was on the floor. And there is a switch to adapt the frequency response for "floor" or "rig" mount. Bass was not the problem. It was more the genuine character, especially the sweet midrange of the Champ. And then I decided to do a new profile and then I got lost inside all those parameters of the KPA. Now my head is turning ... 
Display MoreToday I got one RCF NX-12SMA. Spent the whole day tweaking and testing, also doing a new, more thorough profile of my amp and then I did the toughest test:
GUITAR
> LEHLE SWITCHER
>> KPA+RCF NX-12SMA
>> just my amp (FENDER EC VIBROCHAMP)
[*]It is way much easier to do this "amp standing there in a room right before me" feeling with the KPA plugged into a clean amp. A KPA+FRFR setup sounds more like a well (or badly) miked amp in the monitors of a control room. This is nice too, but it is not the same. Not even whith an expensive speaker.
.
I totally disagree..I did the same test today and with a much more pricey guitar amp and less pricey FRFR..the FRFR sounded much more present..it didn't sound distant at all..the FRFR totally eclipsed the regular guitar system
Fretboardminer: do you still have the original profile of the Champ? I know the amp quite well and I could give it a try with my RCF...
Fretboardminer: do you still have the original profile of the Champ? I know the amp quite well and I could give it a try with my RCF...
What do you mean by "original profile"? When you set all the parameters to zero it should be as it was when I stored the profile, right? But I think I made a copy before I plunged my head into deep editing.
True for the eq, not for the gain and the advanced parameters
Maybe I was expecting too much: it just was not this "switch A or B - no difference" feeling.
Why did you expect no difference? Profile are taken through further hardware, which necessarily changes the overall sound, dynamics etc...
Anyway, I agree that when tweaking, one has to know what they're doing and what to expect: random tries usually don't lead to anywhere. A knowledge about the device's logic is critical. I'd add the knowledge (in terms of absolute sound) about the difference between two tones.
I'd take a longer time to get accustomed to the KPA's sound and way of work, then I'd try again with heavy tweaking and experiments (I call it "taming the brain", apres Saint-Exupéry :)).
Why did you expect no difference?
I did so because the similarities between reference amp and kemper amp are so stunning if you monitor it through control room speakers and skip between the two software switches on the KPA in the profile mode. This shows that the differences in my "toughest test" (A/B directly after the guitar) don't come from "further hardware" in the signal chain. IMO they mainly come from the way the Champ is projecting in the room. The Champ has 5 Watts and an 8" open back cabinet. That projects different in a room than the 700 Watt tighly closed back cabinet of the RCF NX-12SMA.
But this is only relevant in gigs in very small clubs without PA. And by now I have found a way how to go with the FRFR speaker. And the RCF NX-12SMA has other qualities that I begin to apreciate...
Display MoreYesterday I continued my search for FRFR solutions. I tested Yamaha DXR 12, LD Systems LDEB 122a - both sounded totally crap, useless for my taste. Another option was way better - HK pro 10xa. Very tiny but powerfull. Worth to have a closer look.
Then I borrowed 2 APG 8" and APG 12" from a friend (PA Company). What a difference. These are passiv monitors. I used my Matrix GT800FX for power amp. Wow - cristal clear. 8" is maybe a little small. But the price tag is way out of what I could accept anyway. My friend says the 8" version is about 1000 Euro a piece. I didn't ask about the 12 " version anymore. Regardsless how they sound (very good), not my deal. After playing a while I switched back to the cheap Altos.
It sounded as if somebody threw a heavy blanket over the speakers. All the clarity gone and a honky midrange added. Not really an improvement. But after a 2 minutes this impression vanished and it sounded somehow better. Yes - in a way even better than the expencive high tech APGs. It just sounded more like a real amp in the room.
I than decided to take one of the Altos to a jam session later on. I am totally convinced, that the Altos are a serious option for everybody who is looking for a budget solution. I had to struggle (musicwise) against 2 other guitarplayer (both with tube amps). The Alto monitor was standing on the floor and it still filled the room. I had to stay a step sidewards of the speaker in order to not go deaf.
Before I finally will try the so often mentioned RCF NX, I am still interested in other cheaper solution. Which ones would come close to the RCFs. I also think, the concept of using coax speaker is the way to go, because the spread the sound very nice. They seem to be ideal for guitar tones. Any recommendations for me?
How do you find the bottom end on the Alto?. All the poweramps I tried with traditional guitar cab dissapointed me on bottom end...too prominent, so I'm looking for an affordable "FRFR" system, and the Alto seems to be nice.
I did so because the similarities between reference amp and kemper amp are so stunning if you monitor it through control room speakers and skip between the two software switches on the KPA in the profile mode. This shows that the differences in my "toughest test" (A/B directly after the guitar) don't come from "further hardware" in the signal chain. IMO they mainly come from the way the Champ is projecting in the room. The Champ has 5 Watts and an 8" open back cabinet. That projects different in a room than the 700 Watt tighly closed back cabinet of the RCF NX-12SMA.
I see where you're coming from and where you're aiming at. I'm not sure I share your conclusions tho 
Not that I disagree on a Champ diffusing differently from a 12SMA of course! I just think there might be something more accounting for the final difference between real amp/KPA.
IMO a more definitive test would be: both mid- and far-field mic both the FRFR and the Champ, carefully balance far- and mid-field mics for each loudspeaker and listen to them from control room switching on the desk. This will both have you listen through monitors and, at the same time, return more of the ambience behaviour.
