SPDIF slave or selectable sample rates (48/44.1)

  • I know a few producers who record at 44.1 but 48khz is still a very common pro studio standard so as to enable compatibility across multiple pieces of hardware. It's obviously just left over from the DAT connection standard, but most converters use it as a default clock.


    For me, it'd mean I'd be able to permanently connect the Kemper to the SPDIF inputs on my card's input channels and skip one step of the conversion process.


    THIS WOULD BE AWESOME. :)

  • + 1337


    (OT Noob Question: I'll be recording some stuff for an EP next week. The project is in 48 kHz - can I record the KPA in 44,1 kHz and upsample or should I go the analog way to record in 48 kHz?)

    MJT Strats / PRS Guitars / Many DIY Guitars -- Kemper Profiler Rack / Kemper Remote / InEar

  • ^ Upsampling is always possible, of course. It can produce results which are not always appreciated in the hi-fi world, and this is true especially when the two frequencies have a weird ratio (not integer, for example).
    If these are the figures in the play, I'd go analog :)

  • + 1337


    (OT Noob Question: I'll be recording some stuff for an EP next week. The project is in 48 kHz - can I record the KPA in 44,1 kHz and upsample or should I go the analog way to record in 48 kHz?)

    You won't be able to record at 48, so you'd have to downsample your project, record at 44.1 and then upsample the guitar sounds to 48 ... definitely best to do it all in analog.

  • that is for me the biggest fail of this machine, no 48kHZ !!!


    then for now i cannot use it for my serious projects, i am a bit pissed !

  • Check to see if your interface has a sample rate adjustment. My apollo has this and all the artifacts are gone.
    Still a native solution would be best ofcourse, but in the meantime maybe your interface can handle the adjustment?

  • Check to see if your interface has a sample rate adjustment. My apollo has this and all the artifacts are gone.
    Still a native solution would be best ofcourse, but in the meantime maybe your interface can handle the adjustment?

    This is idea totally cool for an environment that is not a professional studio locked at a different rate. My studio is at 48khz because of various converters and units that connect to a master clock and unfortunately due the the Kemper being 44.1 only, it can only be used in the analog domain. :(

  • Ah, sorry. I'm just a simple home player with some gear to record and the solution worked for me.


    Hope they fix it for you.

    This is idea totally cool for an environment that is not a professional studio locked at a different rate. My studio is at 48khz because of various converters and units that connect to a master clock and unfortunately due the the Kemper being 44.1 only, it can only be used in the analog domain. :(

  • A stupid question: what is the problem going analog? If you would mic a real amp would be the same, and the combined latency of KPA and interface is still extremely low (prolly lower than working with 512 as somebody suggested). Agree that it would a plus to have 48kHz, but saying that it otherwise makes it "impossible" to work on the serious stuff is a bit overstated, IMHO.....

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • I don't need 48khz but would love a slave option. so +1/2 :thumbup:

    same for me...
    had a studio session on a 48khz Project last month, and i had to do it all analog.
    Had to tweak the rigs in the studio - and it made me loose time !


    +1 for 48khz

    This doesn't make any sense. The digital output and analog output are a mirror image minus 1 DA stage which will not significantly color the sound. Any rig adjustments you made you would likely have had to make if going SPDIF as well.

  • A stupid question: what is the problem going analog? If you would mic a real amp would be the same, and the combined latency of KPA and interface is still extremely low (prolly lower than working with 512 as somebody suggested). Agree that it would a plus to have 48kHz, but saying that it otherwise makes it "impossible" to work on the serious stuff is a bit overstated, IMHO.....


    Well, I agree about this, while a 48 kHz sampling is almost necessary while reamping to avoid another AD/DA.
    I love the analog sound of the KPA passing thru a Neve (clone) or a API, but I'd like to have the direct sound not converted.

  • I don't need 48khz but would love a slave option. so +1/2 :thumbup:

    This doesn't make any sense. The digital output and analog output are a mirror image minus 1 DA stage which will not significantly color the sound. Any rig adjustments you made you would likely have had to make if going SPDIF as well.

    Agree, but the guy in the studio wanted to use his Avalon preamps for analog, and they do colour the sounds !

  • A stupid question: what is the problem going analog? If you would mic a real amp would be the same, and the combined latency of KPA and interface is still extremely low (prolly lower than working with 512 as somebody suggested). Agree that it would a plus to have 48kHz, but saying that it otherwise makes it "impossible" to work on the serious stuff is a bit overstated, IMHO.....


    Yeah you're right latency is no issue in a studio environment at all - for me it's a few other things ...


    • I'm using all 32 analog ins and outs of my interface (pres/outboard/summing etc), but it has an additional SPDIF in/out that I can use. If the Kemper used SPDIF as a slave, I wouldn't have to patch things in and test levels before re-amping or recording. If I could dedicate the SPDIF to this purpose, I could save a fair bit of time.


    • In addition, the extra conversion being done slightly changes the sound. If it's SPDIF, it's just digital only. It sounds clearer and the stereo picture is nicer with the native SPDIF connection. It is clearly audible on decent monitors.


    Micing an amp does only one A/D conversion to an interface, whereas the Kemper is doing D/A/D if you use its analog output to your interface, and that's the difference between those two. It certainly doesn't make a difference between a great album and a crap album so it's absolutely not a critical issue, but it has a SPDIF output available and it'd be the cleanest and fastest way to work if it was able to be set to slave. :thumbup:


    I hope it happens in the near future, because it would mean much less hassle pulling a great sound when re-amping or recording guitar in a busy studio.


    The irony for me is that at home I have a Steinberg UR28M interface and nothing clocked to it, so it happily runs along at 44.1 and it sounds great :P

  • I would love 192k/24bit, 176.4k/24bit, or 96k/24bit. out, but what is the internal sample rate because a raw output of that would be best to limit the number of needless conversions.


    found this:
    9. Can you talk about what’s under the hood (processors, speeds, sampling rate, A/D conversion etc)?


    The main DSP is a Freescale DSP (formerly Motorola) running at an equivalent of 400 MHz speed. The code consists of tens of thousands of lines of pure assembler code. The global sampling rate is 44.1 kHz, while the internal sampling rate is partially much higher. The algorithm for the tube simulation runs on more than 700 kHz sampling rate (!).


    source: http://www.guitar-muse.com/kemper-profiling-amp-2949-2949


    If I read that right, it looks like 44.1 out is what would be available.

    550 chords sorted into 128 equivalent sets for 10, 9, 8, 7, and 6 string guitar in normal, P4, whole step down, and drop tuning, and every scale there is arranged by mode:
    http://www.kneelie.com/guitar/

    Edited 4 times, last by kneelie ().

  • I keep hearing "avoiding the extra DA/AD"....Forget about it. We're not in the 80's any more, converters are good these days. I've done tests with 40 conversions of music (meaning much broader bandwidth, transients, more detailed etc than a mere electric guitar) and one could barely hear a difference from the original. Connect straight to your studios converters and get your gain staging right, and you're fine.


    48k has never been a standard clock, ever. Other than for the motion picture crowd. At least not where I live, or with the studios I've worked with abroad.


    That said, I definitely wouldn't mind if the KPA could be slaved to different rates! And surely digital is the simplest and most reliable way to get the exact same signal and level each time. But I doubt it will happen, so people should prepare to live without it, or work at 44.1 8)