Latency

    Do not take me wrong, there're digital devices that are simply unplayable ...
    But I'm starting believing that if a 3 ms latency causes feeling and playback issues there must be something more that simply this. As if, in some way, the 3 ms latency we measure on our computers was different from a 3 ms latency when you just play an acoustic instrument a few feet from another player. Maybe the former sums itself to other "delays" in the overall signal chain (air included)...

    Musicman65 should speak about his setup. Is he going through headphones or his computer's speakers and finding latency there.


    Through headphones, there's no noticeable latency. Some patches with effects may appear to have latency.


    The ONLY time I've experience problematical latency was through a bad soundcard or badly setup soundcard on my computer. Via direct wires (Direct Out to an Amp or Headphones) I've never ever not even once heard noticeable latency.


    Latency of 2.3ms is fabuloso-tastic. If you can hear that you need to call Guinness. Typically most humans can't detect latency below 9 or 10 ms.


    Human nerve impulses travel about 100 meters per second. That means the quickest stubbing your toe can register on your brain for someone 2 meters tall is 2 Meters/100M = 0.020s which is 20ms of "latency" to register "PAIN". Minimum of 40ms to move your foot if you have no "think" time.


    The latency of the translation and nerve impulse in your head to even think and register it as a recognizable noise is most likely in the 1-2ms range as there has to be at least 0.15M of nerve distance to process that signal I should think (ear is connected to the->Reptilian Brain and the Reptilian brain is connected to the->thinking human OMG that's a slow guitar signal Brain)


    Anyone claiming to hear 2.3ms can't be serious. It's something else. Correct me Neuroscientists or Physicists if I'm wrong.

    The thing with latency for me is that it accumulates and can start to add up depending on your setup, as mentioned above. So it's not that I'm sensitive to 2 or 3 ms but with the round trip through the DAW it can easily get up to 15-20ms where it is does start to become distracting.

    Quote from guitarnet70

    Without air you have no sound.... 8|

    Uh? Sorry mate, I did not get your point here :huh:


    Quote from db9091

    Human nerve impulses travel about 100 meters per second. That means the quickest stubbing your toe can register on your brain for someone 2 meters tall is 2 Meters/100M = 0.020s which is 20ms of "latency" to register "PAIN". Minimum of 40ms to move your foot if you have no "think" time.


    The latency of the translation and nerve impulse in your head to even think and register it as a recognizable noise is most likely in the 1-2ms range as there has to be at least 0.15M of nerve distance to process that signal I should think (ear is connected to the->Reptilian Brain and the Reptilian brain is connected to the->thinking human OMG that's a slow guitar signal Brain)


    Anyone claiming to hear 2.3ms can't be serious. It's something else.

    Apart from sharing your conclusions, I'm not sure I get your line of reasoning. If I got it right, I'd answer that intrinsic neurological delay is a constant which always applies, adding itself to whatever delayed event you might perceive... so no matter how late we perceive events, as long as we are the ones triggering them... Am I missing your point?
    Thanks for your time!

    My point is, 2ms is FAST.


    Your guitar sound is about a meter from your ear. That's 1M of space and 3ms delay right there. Does it annoy anyone when they pick that they hear the delay between pick and brain receiving it? Somehow, I think they don't.


    Reported ability to detect latency noticeably in sound is past 9ms.


    If the guy with the DAW is experiencing such poor latency, additive or not, it's his soundcard most likely (or it's setting) I have a dedicated DAW and the latency is undetectable. Computer DAW's are mostly caused by their soundcards or settings. I've almost ALWAYS had to buy a new and better soundcard since stock computers often come with poor ones.


    So in talking about your latency problem, you need to list the whole signal chain so someone can suggest a fix, because I am telling you, the Kemper is NOT the problem, nor can't it be improved much more, as it's a computer with a CPU and A/D,D/A converters that are not instantaneous.

    Quote from db9091

    You can have sound with water. Or solids (assuming you can cram it right to your ear drum)


    Only a true vacuum has no sound. Or if we remove the human ear, "no series of compression waves"


    Correct....but then you must tune your instrument accordingly..... :D

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    The reason I have latency through headphones is due to my choice of technology.


    I am a long time user of guitar to midi gear. I blow a mean sax live (through my guitar) :) My guitar tones are very direct and low latency via IEMs (ear buds) but guitar to midi pitch conversion sounds have 10 to 40ms latency depending on the synth attack and note played to trigger it. If you practice enough, you get used to it. The mind has compensation mechanisms built in. Athletes use this to react based on speed.


    The brain can detect sub millisecond delays but can't react at that speed. Your ears are 6 inches apart and stereo imaging is primarily due to differences in arival time of sounds! Amazing!


    bd

    This must be a sensitive issue and maybe kemper need a new prosessor like the sound cards to get faster, less latency.
    When i make a profile and compare with the reference amp in profile mode, i hear a big difference. The Kemper sound is near but have a lot more latency and unwanted ambience, almoust like a short reverb added to it. And it is unbelievable that not more people are hearing this. the Kemper also have a thinner sound on the high notes over 12 freet. I wish this could be fixed!!

    Edited 3 times, last by strengdal ().

    There are ten's of producers, sound eng., pro players here and nobody ever noticed...
    Sounds like something is wrong in your unit. What FW are you in?
    Try making a system reset (boot holding System pressed).

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    Quote from strengdal

    This must be a sensitive issue and maybe kemper need a new prosessor like the sound cards to get faster, less latency.
    When i make a profile and compare with the reference amp in profile mode, i hear a big difference. The Kemper sound is near but have a lot more latency and unwanted ambience, almoust like a short reverb added to it. And it is unbelievable that not more people are hearing this. the Kemper also have a thinner sound on the hig notes over 12 freets. I wish this could be fixed!!


    If I'm not mistaken the Kemper will add more latency when in profile mode to both the kemper and reference signal. So the latency is not this much when playing profiles the normal way when not profiling.


    I'm sure this is mentioned in the manual somewhere or other place.

    I dont hear much latency in the reference amp doing profiler mode.I have only latency in Kemper amp. Im using Rivera tbr, without speaker.direct from the amp in to Kemper, this way is the perfect comparison.