Profiling with a DI-Box

I'm not familiar with the specific items at your disposal but theoretically, plug a speaker-level-ready DI between the amp and the cab, use the -20db pad and run the output to the KPA.
It should work and has been reportedly working, although i seem to recall some guys having less than stellar results (read, worse than profiling through a cab and mic).
Perhaps the KPA in it's current stage doesn't like full-range signals.

It's also been suggested that the KPA will someday have a dedicated DI profiling mode, so that i can cry myself to sleep over selling my dearly beloved, self built cab

Quote from LIQUIDAETHER

Hi all.

It's been a long time since my last post here. I was (and still am) very busy in the studio producing, recording and mixing bands so my internet time is short... The KPA helped me over the last months to establish a studioworkflow I thought was impossible!

This leads me to this topic...

In addition to profiling the bands' amps like I mic'ed them for the production I came to the conclusion that it would rule to also take 'DI-profiles' of the amps to be even more flexible since this will more likely produce a profile of the amp without ANY coloration from mics etc. But how will have to do this? I have some DI-boxes and a HUGHES & KETTNER Redbox at my disposal... ...will any of those work?

If this topic was already covered here a simple link will work for me.

Regards.

-Mario

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DI profiling has been a common practice for a long time already and it works like a charm. Adding cab profiles later on will give you sweet results.

Though it is possible to use a standard Di Box with the signal from the effect send, i always recommend using a DI Box between speaker out and cab since this will give you the tonal influence of the power amp as well. The Behringer DI-100 and GI-100 are very affordable and can handle speaker levels. I have 4 of those and never had any problem...

The Behringer ULTRA-G GI100 works great for this.
I've bougth it suggested by tyler and I have to thank him Agian and again.
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/GI100.aspx

so I suggest to try it, even if you say you can't really stand that Brand.( I can't sand Boss/Roland so i can undestand your position but give em a try )

Every one of my profiles has been recorded using a Hughes and Kettner Red Box (with the exception of recent Fender-Vox batch). I run my main Kemper rig into a power amp/external cab using the KPA "Monitor Out" with internal cab off. The Red Box/no cab profiles are a non-issue when running with cab off. The main thing I check before hitting the go-button on profiling is the return db level (I usually set my level at 1.5 db). As long as you set the same level every time you should find consistent results. Let us know how they turn out.

once i have understood this correctly i am going to push "send" in my thomann account ...
{for the GI-Ultra]

questions

• i can profile my amps with this method without speakers @bedroom level or even via headphones out of pc-soundcard? right?
• what is a return db level? and where do you set it? in the KPA, behringer or soundcard or cubase itself (or logic or xyz)?
  

  
  

  
  

  thanks a lot!!

The return db level is on the Kemper, when you are in the profiling mode it will be the 2nd knob in, bottom right. As far as speakers/bedroom level, the Red Box still requires a load to function properly. You send the "Direct Out" from the Kemper into your amplifier input. Amplifier out gets plugged into Red Box "From Speaker Output". Red Box "To Speaker Cabinet" goes to your speaker cab input. Red Box "Balanced Out" goes back to Kemper "Return Input". From there you are ready to start profiling.

Quote from LIQUIDAETHER

Thanks guys!

Any other recommendations for DI-Boxes? I really can´t stand the BEHRINGER stuff!!! And yeah, how to determine if a DI-box can handle speaker level? Maybe I am having one already in my collection...

And what about the Red Box? Does the speaker emulation color the sound too much?

Get the original then:
http://www.thomann.de/de/bss_ar133.htm
Basically the same thing, but feels more exclusive
Forget about the red box, it can´t handle speaker levels... it was rather known for it´s poor cab emulation... 20 years ago...

Speaking of DI - i just did a gig - connected Main Output (XLR) to FOH. I had all Ground Lift pressed. But there was big hum from my channel and drive everyone crazy. So the sound guy had me take out the XLR and connect instead with DI. And like magic the hum disappear.

BTW - this is the DI used:

http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/jdi.php

The sound guy told me there is no ground in that building and the only way to get ground is to connect with DI. I was surprise with all the ground lift on the back of the KPA. So may I have to carry DI rather than connect direct with Main Ouput to FOH. Any suggestion on this?

Quote from tylerhb

Get the original then:
http://www.thomann.de/de/bss_ar133.htm
Basically the same thing, but feels more exclusive
Forget about the red box, it can´t handle speaker levels... it was rather known for it´s poor cab emulation... 20 years ago...

I used the Red Box Classic from a couple of years ago. Cost me about $90, always consistent, never a problem. Sounds like tylerhb may have choked on a H&K sour grape somewhere along the way...

Quote from mhguitarist

I used the Red Box Classic from a couple of years ago. Cost me about $90, always consistent, never a problem. Sounds like tylerhb may have choked on a H&K sour grape somewhere along the way...

Sorry, didn´t read your post
I only had a red box once, maybe 10 or 15 years ago. Perhaps one of the very first versions. You couldn´t even turn the cab emulation off there. The newer versions seem to be better and alos have more features.... I compared the cab emulations to a Palmer and the GI 100. For metal, i liked the Palmer best and the GI 100 second best.
I just wanted to say that i wouldn´t pay more for a Di Box with a cab emulation that you wouldnt use for profiling anyway.

Quote from LIQUIDAETHER

Nah, this maybe a bit too much for a DI-box i just use for profiling. BTW when speaking of BEHRINGER people always said that their MX8000 desk is 'basically the same thing' as MACKIEs 8-Bus desks but in reality the differences were huge and i think its needless to say which brand was on top. Haha.

Right, but a DI Box really is such a simple device, you can buld it yourself for a few bucks. Anyway, be sure to get a box which eiher has no cab emulation or one that can be deactivated. Taking DI profiles with cab emulation on makes not much sense imo since those will be colored exactly like miked profiles.

Hahaha

Quote from LIQUIDAETHER

Quoted from "mhguitarist"



You send the "Direct Out" from the Kemper into your amplifier input. Amplifier out gets plugged into Red Box "From Speaker Output". Red Box "To Speaker Cabinet" goes to your speaker cab input. Red Box "Balanced Out" goes back to Kemper "Return Input". From there you are ready to start profiling.
Great! But what about the speaker emulation of the Red Box? I for sure know that its not the best one (which in some cases adds exactly what i want when mixed with a real miced amp ) but how much does it color the sound of the profile?

Quote from LIQUIDAETHER

Quoted from "tylerhb"

I have not had any issues with the Red Box coloring the sound. Typically I will go with the "refine profile" option (after the initial profiling process) and beat my guitar into submission. After a few minutes of that you cannot hear the difference between the original amp and the Kemper. This is through my standard rig (KPA>Carvin 1000watt power amp> Mesa Boogie cab). What it sounds like running through anyone else' rig is a mystery to me but you should get consistent results when profiling and using your own gear.

Get the original then:
http://www.thomann.de/de/bss_ar133.htm
Basically the same thing, but feels more exclusive
Forget about the red box, it can´t handle speaker levels... it was rather known for it´s poor cab emulation... 20 years ago...
Nah, this maybe a bit too much for a DI-box i just use for profiling. BTW when speaking of BEHRINGER people always said that their MX8000 desk is 'basically the same thing' as MACKIEs 8-Bus desks but in reality the differences were huge and i think its needless to say which brand was on top. Haha.

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Are you guys reading a word tylerhb is saying or are you just interested in 'talking'?

Tylerhb is Till's, if he says do something then just do it, don't ask questions.