Posts by MementoMori

Quote from BB2019

Hahahaha! Blah blah blah blah.. Go play guitar dude. Go play guitar. Don't be offended. This is Kemper forum, if you don't like the Kemper, why are you here? It seems you are always ready to waste your time trolling to talk your bs. We are musicians, you want to talk philosophy and sociology, there's other forums for that.

FYI, I play guitar enough. I also don't hate the Kemper, otherwise why would I own one? If you're not mature enough to handle the kinds of disagreements presented here, take your own advice and play guitar instead of participating. It's that simple.

Quote from BB2019

Hahahaha! Long winded and still trying to act like you're important. I went through a lot of your posts on subjects. You need to play more guitar. Lol.

If you had time to mine through my posts, perhaps your suggestion about playing more guitar is personal advice you'd be better serve heeding. It tends to be the last-ditch appeal at people on gear forums who don't like what another person says as a way to dismiss them as an unserious player. Meanwhile, those same people seem to spend the same amount of time on the forum, or perhaps more.

But really, this is needlessly childish and personal. The fact that we can't have a conversation about what Dave Friedman said without getting to this point is sad. For a while it was actually interesting and engaging in a philosophical and sociological sense.

This is precisely the reason I left. No real intellectual honesty in conversation, just Kemper fanboy protectionism. Have it, it's all yours.

Quote from BB2019

I call them buddies. The whole scene out there is is very incestuous. I know this first hand. Protect their own.

Then it's a mystery that Tim has made content favorable to Kemper including running a giveaway through them.

Quote from BB2019

What I do find strange as others here is your subtle protection of all this and acting that if we call out Dave's bullshit, here you come playing captain save a Dave.. As if you have a dog in this fight.

I point out flawed arguments that I see, that's it. Yeah, if you want to be curt and just say he makes repackaged Marshall's or make clever fat jokes, I'm going to give my take. It's really that simple.

Quote from BB2019

The reality is not what they say about the Kemper, it's those of us who own them knows they are full of shit. It's all politics in the guitar builder's world. Kemper is the outsider..

Yes, some of what they say I think is incorrect as a Kemper owner. I've pointed that out, yet I'm still called a "shill troll". In the end, granting any credence to their reasoning is welcomed with scorn by fanboys who take their gear too personally.

Quote from BB2019

If you left the forum, why are you back? Trolling? Shilling? Sounds like it. If you don't like what others are saying, move on..

I came back because the climate of the forum calmed a bit. Seems that was a mistake.

Quote from BB2019

You're full shit. A shill troll.

You can ask older members who remember me. They'll echo that those are and were my feelings. Not sure what I'm shilling, though. Perhaps you can be more clear since the lazy appeal of forum dwellers is the accuse anybody they don't like of being a "troll".

I'll just end it by pointing out how needlessly personal this all got. That says all that need be said. Later.

Quote from BB2019

Nope. Some profiles are spikey but with some good profiles, not grainy. My view is Dave is projecting. His buddies protecting. Using his own words, his own analogy, his amps from the JJ-100 with it's AC30 cleans to his guitars is piracy. His first guitars were blatant Fenders style guitars. Lol.

Some do suffer it more than others, but I wouldn't call Tim Pierce one of his "buddies". It wasn't long ago that Tim Pierce made a couple Kemper-friendly videos (and even in the Tone Talk he says it sounds great) and people on the forum were singing his praises as yet another convert.

And here we go with the "piracy" silliness again... It seems if you say anything less than glowing about the KPA, people will start grasping any straw to dismiss and discredit you. Reminds me why I left the forum a year or so again.

Quote from Vinny

How about the comments about the 'grainy top end' with the Kemper they talk about 1:22:30 of the clip. Does anyone else notice this?

Yes, and the exact way I've phrased it some time ago.

Quote from Deej09

MementoMori .......mmmm..... I’m mixing up the nuances...? Pot and kettle? I don’t think we will agree on the point by the sounds of it and I really don’t want to get in an argument . I posted the vid as I find the point interesting that he says it’s piracy, which is an illegal activity. I again suggest that it’s not.

However I ask again are you a kemper owner or user? Your views do seem to air on the side that the kemper should not really be in existence or be sold as it hurts “real” amp builders ( whatever that is). Just interested.......?

I'm not calling the kettle black at all. I spelled out my reasoning in the clearest form I know how based on the points voiced to me.

I own a Kemper and highlighted in my previous 2 posts the reasons I don't think the KPA is entirely a "piracy". I did elucidate the reasons why it could be considered that by some, but even included caveats that's it's not necessarily what I think. Obviously Dave Friedman has a business interest that he feels the Kemper interferes with, hence his judgement may be a bit skewed by his interests. By the same token, I think Kemper users love their Kemper's and it also clouds their judgement about certain things, which is why we get these ungermane rationalizations that Friedman rips off Marshall, etc. People understandably don't like to believe something they're doing may be unethical, but that doesn't mean their logic is without flaw IMO, especially when they appeal to the "he does it too!" type of argument.

It shouldn't be necessary for me to qualify any of my points with whether or not I own a Kemper. The arguments stand on their own and can be debated on their own merits, absent a need to show some sort of credential.

Quote from Deej09

I agree it’s is designed to replicate a signal path but you said “total replica” in the quote I mentioned and I said the kemper isn’t a total replica? If that was the case all the dials such as treble, mid and bass etc. would react “exactly” the same, which they do not due to it being a snapshot only.

If you believe it is piracy and you own/use a kemper are up you condoning using something that is illegal (IMHO the kemper isn’t an illegal product as I cannot see in any way or form an infringement on copyright).

I think you're mixing up the nuances. Matchless & Friedman's don't seek to replicate anything, Kemper does, even if in a limited way. I also never said what Kemper does is exactly piracy, I said it's much closer than the moral equivalency people are trying to rationalize in this thread by accusing Friedman of repackaging Marshall's (which he doesn't and is a gross mischaracterization). Kemper seeks to emulate a sound from an existing source, which is not what Matchless or Friedman do.

As far as the differences you point out like the EQ dials on the front, I agree. But the attitude KPA users take, and is often said on this forum, is they "steal" the amp or the soul or what-have-you. Just because some users may have a misapprehension doesn't mean that can't affect the builder. In the video I shared, Dave also spoke about somebody buying an amp, profiling it, then returning the amp and how that hurts builders. Kemper can't be held accountable for unethical practices of their customers, especially since they don't encourage such behavior, but it nonetheless reflects on the product as the source of the issue for builders like Dave.

Quote from Deej09

And kemper isn’t a total replica of any amp it profiles?

It's designed explicitly to replicate a specific signal path, as I explained earlier in my post.

Quote from Southdakota

Dave takes another little Kemper dig about 7 minutes in....Great Jake interview though overall. Jump to about 12 min and Dave talks about the cranked Marshall being the ultimate classic metal sound...so he does acknowledge what sound he is after.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtB9aOntuck

Not the first time they've talked about the Kemper on Tone Talk.

@ 1:19:28 - 1:32:55

Quote from don1960lp

BY 'this thread' I assume you mean certain members, like me, who have taken some offense with Dave Friedman.

I'm not sure why you would take personal offense. It's not that he was talking about you.

Quote from don1960lp

Maybe a guy who built a business on top of a foundation of others shouldn't go around using the word 'pirate' in such a cavalier manner. From a technical standpoint the word can be made to fit, but on other levels it has a VERY negative connotation, and those types of accusations can actually have an extremely negative impact on those being accused.

Friedman builds amps that have a foundation elsewhere, but that's not piracy. His amps have different functions and are voiced a bit differently, so it's more like inspiration and innovation. A profile seeks to completely replicate a source, which is far more fitting of the term "piracy" despite your attempt at moral equivalency. I'm not saying I think profiling is "piracy" in the truest sense, but it's much closer than what you and others are alluding to with Dave Friedman.

Though the KPA is a sort of "pirated sound", it's a little more complex to me due to the fact that a full profile doesn't just replicate an amp. It tries to replicate a signal chain. Pedals > Amp setting > Cab > Speakers > Mic > Mic position > Mic pre > Cables, and anything else in the chain that likely leaves an imprint on the resulting tone. We focus far too much on the "amp" portion IMO.

Quote from don1960lp

Friedman is by no means alone in how he carefully crafted a boutique business in the tube amplifier world by building on what was already before him - hell, Mark Sampson came out when he started Matchless saying that the main goal of the company was to design and build a better AC30.

Which isn't piracy, ie an "unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work". Matchless aren't total AC30 replica's any more than Friedman's are total Marshall replica's.

I'm not an idiot, I understand precisely the ironic device you were using, which was sarcastic in the original context. It didn't make me easily offended to simply point out that making a cleverly worded fat joke isn't really meaning "no disrespect".

Quote from Tritium

EDIT -- Well, that took all of 3 seconds before someone got offended by what I thought was a rather harmless observation...so I deleted what was a rather cheeky post, meant good humor, and hereby substitute with the following anodyne and utterly prosaic observation:

The amazing and talented David Friedman is starting to look a bit like the amazing and talented Howard Dumble.

I'm not easily offended, I just found it rather needless, especially in light of this threads propensity to try and discredit Dave Friedman in a litany of ways that aren't germane to the topic at hand. Pointing that out doesn't make one easily offended, especially since many people try and sneak in digs disguising them as jokes that other people "take too seriously" like your sarcastic use of the word "svelte". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote from OneEng1

While I find it interesting .... even nice ... that the KPA can capture an amp, MementoMori has the key I believe.

The huge bank of sounds that are available (and cheep ... or even free) is incredible.

Keep in mind that not all amps will sound good to all people with all guitar setups. I always find it amazing the differences in opinion about what a "great" guitar tone sounds like. The many profiles surely outline this if nothing else.

The real key for me isn't necessarily any of the above though. For me it comes down to:

1) You can get an array of great sounds fast and easy

2) It is small, light, has a great gig interface, and includes studio class effects.

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Not to veer too far off topic, but this is one of the main reasons I found the bans on people like SinMix overall unhelpful. I get that he conducted himself in often unhelpful ways that most wouldn't, but he brought tremendous value to the Kemper. People like me who live much of the time in high gain world found the immediate experience of the KPA very underwhelming. I've seen some say they were going to sell the KPA before finding his profiles and now they love their Kemper's.

The users bring the true value of the product, and it increases each day. The people who often talk about buying the Kemper "as is" without the promise of future developments are fooling themselves. Not only do we know the KPA is a digital device and undergoing improvements and additions, but there are always people profiling new amps and setups which make the KPA even more valuable to already own.

But perhaps that is also a reason guys like Friedman don't and likely won't do official profiles. They would be adding value to a product they oppose on ethical grounds, and in a sort of way devaluing their own product by doing so. There are arguments and counter arguments to that thinking of course.

I don't see how finding a passive way to call someone fat, possibly to undermine them as a person, can be "meaning no disrespect".

His weight or choice of names for his amps is antithetical to his opinion of the Kemper.

Quote from nightlight

Whatever profiling is, I think we can agree, everyone wants to get in on the action!

It's unique in that it simply provides an algorithm and has users do much of the work and bring value to the product.

Quote from nightlight

I reiterate that we haven't had anything like profiling ever.

There are other machines like the Bias, which do EQ matching, but are not like the profiler. The Axe FX also claims to be profiling, using an EQ match.

But there are certainly other elements involved, the Profiler isn't just an EQ match machine. We really don't know what goes into creating a model of an amp. Definitely far more nuances than just the EQ that are involved.

In a way, it is like capturing an entire signal chain. That's why you can even capture a preamp chain in the studio. Definitely a new and novel technology.

It is being copied now, it would appear, such as by that guitar amp sim which Slate Digital is promoting. That will result in the price point (assuming that Slate's tech is legit) dropping due to its availability as software.

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I reiterate that EQ matching technology, which profiling no doubt relies on as a component of profiling, predates the KPA. As a whole the entirety of its methodology was new, especially with the power of putting so much control and variables in the hands of the user.

Cliff never claimed that the Axe profiled. That was a debate Dean and ColdFrixon had on the subject. What Cliff claimed was that EQ matching was “99%” of what profiling is. Personally, I don’t entirely agree and I’m sure that number was just pulled out of his ass, but regardless, he never claimed the Axe profiled, only that it already offered a feature that Cliff claimed was most of what profiling was.

As of last year, more companies are coming out with matching technology that looks very influenced by profiling, so it’s not that we continue to see nothing like it, either. It’s a very cool and interesting time in digital technology.

Quote from nightlight

What I meant is that people buy his amps instead of Marshalls because it is bloody good tone. Not that his amps aren't based on Marshalls. Why buy a copy of a Marshall? Because it is a bloody good copy, some may even say better than the original it is based on.

I don’t 100% agree. Friedman’s amps may have been cut from Marshall mods, but they’re definitely different. Some of his amps, like the Butterslax, are dramatically different than anything you’d find in Marshall land.

Quote from nightlight

The profiling technology is just about 7 years old. There's been nothing like it before.

EQ curve matching existed long before the KPA, even if the KPA does more (like gain stage matching plus cab capture). The entirely of its methodology was new but pieces of profiling did exist already.

Quote from ScottM

Has he tried not giving his amps names that are euphemisms for assholes and vaginas?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: why would this matter?

Quote from Wheresthedug

I totally agree with you there that there are many examples of pro Metal bands openly embracing digital technology and I am sure there are many more who actually use it but don't admit it because of endorsement deals with valve amp manufacturers. However, there is also a massive number of bedroom players and weekend warriors who refuse to even entertain the idea that digital could conceivably be a viable option. Many of them in the Mesa groups (I have be a Mesa user for 30 +years and still love them even though they are just expensive ornaments in my room these days) spout such nonsense as "digital might be OK for some things but they will just never come close to a real valve amp for Metal". I honestly think a lot of these players (who own Triple Rectifiers and JP2c as "bedroom" amps) buy their amps based on what they think their heroes use rather than what suits their needs.

I know we often roll our eyes at "bedroom players" and "weekend warriors", but the truth is none of these companies would make money without them. The "pros" that are often talked about either get their gear for free or at a heavy discount. To sell thousands of units, it's the general public who pays full price from distributors who must eat the lions share. Even in this very forum, I'd say far and away the vast majority of users fit the exact description that they often take sideswipes at (not saying you are necessarily). Weekend warriors or not, these are the people who dictate the market.

But I agree that there is always going to be a segment of people who become stubbornly pro-something, which they interpret as a zero-sum game where that means they have to be anti-something else. Tube snobbery is real, and if this was 5-10 years back it would be far more extreme. In recent years I've started to see almost the opposite, digital proponents trashing traditional valve amplifiers. I can imagine the Mesa forums & groups being anti-digital because they want to justify their gear to themselves. Other amp people do it. Axe users do it. Helix users do it. Kemper users do it. Pickup company users do it, etc. There's always a segment of snobbery in any mindshare.

By "never come close a real valve amp", it's important to know what the person means. I think there's enough blind tests out there to demonstrate that digital is definitely making rapid advancements and can at times be crazy close to matching a tone. They'd be too dismissive to deny this. Still, if you watch Ola's segments "Guess That Tone", he guesses right almost every time it's a plug-in or modeler even if he doesn't know which one. There are certain cues that stick out, even if they sound great or very close. But if they mean that you're never going to get the visceral experience of analog circuits bending and behaving erratically in the room that gives you that unique experience, that's hard to disagree with at this point.

Quote from Wheresthedug

If ever there was a genre that was custom made for digital processing it's modern metal and yet metal players are among the most resistant to digital amps

I'm not sure this is really true. There are multiple schools of thought, but metal players for many years have been using POD's and Axe-FX's openly. It's also not hard to find recordings of djenty metal bands where the guitar is actually MIDI and uses a plug-in.

Quote from OneEng1

No one makes Axe vs Real Amp comparisons where you can't tell the difference between one and the other (at least I haven't heard any). No one says that the Axe doesn't sound good (or great even), but rarely do they say they can't tell the difference between the Axe and their Mesa IME.

Not true at all.

Quote from OneEng1

What this suggests is that while (in theory) a digital version of the real circuit should provide the same output as the real components, it is currently failing to do so convincingly. Note, again, this isn't to say that modelers sound bad, they just don't sound exactly like the amps they are modeling the way a good Kemper profile does.

This is a bit misleading. There are comparisons of amps and modelers with Kemper that do a good job illustrating that sometimes the Kemper doesn't even get as close as other solutions (which there are lots of variables). Further, on this very forum there's been Axe tone matches of Kemper profiles and even Kemper cab captures with the Axe that make them virtually indistinguishable. The idea that the Kemper just owns tube tone and modelers are playing catch-up just isn't true.

This statement can be considered true if you account for the fact that modelers model a particular amp & cab. As we know, even same-model amps can have variances from amp to amp. Maybe the Axe nails the Plexi it modeled itself after, but sounds very different from a re-tubed Plexi that somebody profiled from their private collection that's been played, gigged, and run through a different cab with different speakers in different conditions. That's where Axe capturing the Kemper cab from a profile and tweaking the relative amp can tell a lot, and the results have often been impressive IMO.

Quote from OneEng1

In real life, the tube amp ends up having unique sonic qualities that the modeler doesn't capture.

Of course, which is why it's never a true replacement. Kemper is much the same IMO. There are also other considerations like models/profiles being of mic'd guitar tones and completely losing that "in the room" feel.

Quote from OneEng1

The real problem tube amp makers have with Kemper is the level to which it succeeds at sounding ..... exactly like the real thing.

Though I'd quibble with the "exactly like the real thing" comment, you're absolutely correct that because the Kemper does such a good job and enough people have bought into it, amp builders are more threatened by its existence. Some of it is rational, some irrational. Some pragmatic, some emotional. I do think that amp builders can be honest about where the KPA falls short and also the history and romanticism of tube amplifiers. When they sound like old sticks in the mud, it does them no real service.