Using Clean Sense setting with low level guitars.

    Dear All,


    I'm starting with my brand new KPA Rack and I have a question the manuals didn't help me to sort out.
    For different purposes, I use 6 or 7 very different guitars: a couple of Teles with very low level outputs, a Strat with Texas Specials pickups, a Strat with EMG lipstick active pickups, a couple of Les Pauls with "normal" humbuckers and an Ibanez with very hot Seymour Duncan humbuckers.


    My question relates to the lower level guitars.


    Is it advisable to increase the Clean Sense to the max (before getting the Input LED RED) or should I keep away from modifying the default settings?


    In other words... If the Input LED doesn't clip into RED it's advisable to not messing around with Clean Sense?
    Or should I always adjust Clean Sense up to get the maximum S/N before clipping?
    Does it works like an input gain for a A/D stage?



    I've already checked the manuals and some threads in this forum but almost everyone was discussing about reducing the level when the Input LED clips but not discussing if it is of any use to increase the setting of Clean Sense when the input is very low.



    Thanks for your help.



    Luis

    Hey Luis, I have about a dozen guitars and just about every major pickup type. My take on level adjustment is this: it's all about the Clean Sens, way more important than Distort.


    My down and dirty method is plug in a guitar, press INPUT, whack the crap out of the guitar (open chords, etc), watch the input level and adjust Clean Sens +/- until it doesn't redlight anymore. Rename and save the input setting. Move on to next guitar, lather, rinse, repeat ...


    Also you might want to start with your hottest output guitar first. My personal preference for Strats, Teles, etc., is to turn up Clean Sens to 4 - 5, maybe up to 7 for a really low output gtr until it feels responsive and has enough sheen/chime detail to satisfy my ear. YMMV.


    Hope this is helpful.

    Edited once, last by MLScola ().

    In my experience the clean sense can be of great help in finding an amp's sweet spot, so my advice would be use your ears instead of your eyes. I usually set the clean sense "cold", that is, the input LED lights green almost 100% of the time with an occasional yellow. You'll notice that as you adjust clean sense with mid gain profiles there will be a point where there's a sudden decrease (or increase if you're going up) in the high end, and that's usually where the amp sweet spot is. That spot will vary according to a number of factors, including how the amp was profiled, the definition setting and of course how hot your pickups are.

    The manual seems to be misleading in that regard?


    Hey CK. I'm a feel kind of guy. All I really do is play with Clean and Distort Sens until my Strat response feels right (to me) with the amp rig sound. I'm always in the green, I never overload and things sound good to me. My input levels for my Strat are: 7.8 Clean Sens and +4.0 for Distortion.


    My other hotter guitars? Very different input story. My humbucker is Clean 3.4 and Distort 0. My P90? Clean 7.5, Distort -2.5.


    I alway try the default input levels first. If they work, great! If not, I tweak them until they work and feel good.


    I certainly apologize if I gave Luis bad information, I was just trying to share what worked for me.

    The issue here is that for some guitars (like the Teles) I never get a yellow LED even if I turn Clean Sense to the max... It's always in the green.
    For other more hotter pickups, I do get yellows and reds, and adjust Clean Sense according.


    Does this means that for lower level guitars I should run Clean Sense into max setting?
    Or should I leave it as is in default?

    Quote from Deny

    In my experience the clean sense can be of great help in finding an amp's sweet spot, so my advice would be use your ears instead of your eyes. I usually set the clean sense "cold", that is, the input LED lights green almost 100% of the time with an occasional yellow. You'll notice that as you adjust clean sense with mid gain profiles there will be a point where there's a sudden decrease (or increase if you're going up) in the high end, and that's usually where the amp sweet spot is. That spot will vary according to a number of factors, including how the amp was profiled, the definition setting and of course how hot your pickups are.


    You set clean sense per rig and not per guitar? Wow!
    ;)

    Quote from MrBig1964

    The issue here is that for some guitars (like the Teles) I never get a yellow LED even if I turn Clean Sense to the max... It's always in the green.
    For other more hotter pickups, I do get yellows and reds, and adjust Clean Sense according.


    Does this means that for lower level guitars I should run Clean Sense into max setting?
    Or should I leave it as is in default?


    My personal recommendation: treat the profiler like a real amp.
    Take your guitar with the strongest output and adjust clean sense.
    All other guitars will be in relation to this setting, a bit weaker of course, just like in real life, driving the rig a bit less.

    This seems to be a recurrent subject :D . The clean sense is not supposed to have any effect on distorted sounds. Its only purpose is to increase the volume in cleaner sounds to match the one you get on your distorted sounds. The cleaner the sound the more volume increase you get when you play with the clean sense but it does not alter the tone at all.


    http://www.kemper-amps.com/for…ad&postID=80295#post80295


    I believe that what confuses people (like in my case) could be the name of the control. Maybe it should be called something else?

    Been playing around with the Clean and Distortion sense tonite and I must say it doesn't effect the tone but I did find that the clean sense did have an impact on distortion sounds as well. I now have my Clean sense set at +1 and distortion sense set at -1. This results in no clipping/red light at all but if I turn clean sense to anything above +1 some of my distortion profiles give me a red light in the input

    Quote from Raoul23

    Been playing around with the Clean and Distortion sense tonite and I must say it doesn't effect the tone but I did find that the clean sense did have an impact on distortion sounds as well. I now have my Clean sense set at +1 and distortion sense set at -1. This results in no clipping/red light at all but if I turn clean sense to anything above +1 some of my distortion profiles give me a red light in the input

    ...which leads me to think that the Clean Sense setting is something like the input gain before an A/D stage. If it's something like that it's normally recommended to have the loudest signal without clipping to minimize S/N. In my case, for my lower level guitars, it would be turn Clean Sense to the max...

    Quote from Ingolf

    My personal recommendation: treat the profiler like a real amp.
    Take your guitar with the strongest output and adjust clean sense.
    All other guitars will be in relation to this setting, a bit weaker of course, just like in real life, driving the rig a bit less.

    ... it's a view of the question which has some logic. I'm really tempted to go this way...

    Quote from MrBig1964

    ... it's a view of the question which has some logic. I'm really tempted to go this way...


    First thing, this is just my opinion. I tried Ingolf's approach and for me it didn't optimize my individual guitars character as much as I like.


    In my experience I found that by dialing up Clean Sens I can really get the touch, the feel and detail I want - particularly on clean to crunch sounds. I play with my fingers, rarely use a pick.


    And this input optimizing also applies to certain high output pickups. My P90's sounds best (to me) when I run Clean really hot (+7.8). This puts it close to input overload but it lets me use my playing pressure to drive the the sound into more or less distortion. I've tried default and lower settings but they didn't breathe/respond as well as hotter Clean Sens.


    So far my take is this: I have certain guitars for certain things and each guitar needs to be optimized on its own to respond the way I like it. Currently I have a half dozen saved input settings. When I can stop myself from being too technical I let my ears and feelings be the judge of what's correct BECAUSE sometimes what's "correct" can feel a little sterile.


    And here's the beauty part of the Kemper: you can save as many input settings as you like. I have super clean inputs, medium inputs, near the edge, hot inputs. They all do different things. There's no right or wrong. There's just what works for you.


    This story is pretty long and prone to confuse other users.
    Let me assure you that Clean Sense only modifies the volume, but not the sound.


    Does the Master Volume affect the feel of your instrument in the same way? Check it out!

    CK,
    I get that you're thinking it's perceived volume that I'm talking about. Took your suggestion and tested that to make sure. In a sense you're right. But it has nothing to do with the Master or Headphone output.


    So I started testing different input settings (no FX, no compression) with my P90's using the Kemper "Chief Dirty CU29" rig. Created a Zero input (0 Clean -0 Distort), Default input (5 Clean -0 Distort) and lastly my input (7.5 Clean -2.5 Distort). I switch between all three while playing an open chord.


    I agree with you CK, IT'S NOT THE TONE that changes. But jacking up the Clean Sens increases the ratio (volume) of clean to distortion. I prefer more clean to grit. Seems to me it's the combined settings of Clean and Distort that make your guitar respond differently to your touch.


    I think of it like a blend, threshold and balance control between clean and distortion. Now if I'm wrong about this please correct me. I'm only reporting what my ears tell me.

    Quote from ckemper

    This story is pretty long and prone to confuse other users.
    Let me assure you that Clean Sense only modifies the volume, but not the sound.


    Does the Master Volume affect the feel of your instrument in the same way? Check it out!

    CK I do have a question in regards to the way the input level reacts with the amp profile. My question is if you run the input hot (either with a high gain pickup or a booster pedal) does this act like a real tube amp, IE, the input is saturated which then effects the tone of the profiled amp (just like a tube amp)? Or does it simply increase gain more or less linearly. I guess I am wondering how the input reacts to extremely loud input signals such as you find with a booster or line driver. :?:

    I've only had my Kemper since Saturday. I took advice of forum members and adjusted the Clean Sense to my guitars, Strat and Tele. I found it very easy to dial in the Clean Sense by the feel I was getting more than volume level. I found going from "0" to "7.5" made a substantial difference in feel. You guys know a lot more than I do about the Kemper than I do, but thought I'd offer an opinion.