Kemper Analog vs Digital Out Comparison Clip with different Interfaces!!!

    This is meant to be two different comparisons, Kemper analog out vs spdif and Saffire Pro24 vs Mytek 96adc digital converter. The Mytek does not have preamps so I used a Grace M101.


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    Sections 1-4 are Kemper analog out.


    Guitar sample recorded and repeated via Kemper looper.


    All files normalized in Logic.


    Section 1 Focusrite Pro24 Internal Clock
    Section 2 Focusrite Pro24 Mytek Clock
    Section 3 Mytek 96adc with Grace M101 to Saffire Spdif
    Section 4 Mytek 96adc with Grace M101 Toslink Direct to Mac Pro
    Section 5 Kemper Spdif to Focurite Spdif


    Thoughts?

    Yep, thoughts are I tapped my foot to all four, eyes open first time / eyes closed second time around. I must be hard of hearing cause I can't pick up any differences and deer still don't sneak up on me, haha. Good comparison though cause I use Spdif into a M-Audio Ultra thinking digital would be better that analog, guess not to my ears.

    Nice review - I could hear slight differences, but nothing really better or worse... This is good news, as I recently acquired a Motu 828mkII and for some reason have been having issues with the S/PDIF so I might just have to use the direct outs when I record and I was afraid it'd be worse quality, but it sounds about the same, so thanks!

    Playing the KPA over the analog outs does not make a big difference compared to SPDIF. However, for recording and reamping DI tracks i would definitely go for SPDIF. Raw guitar DI signals are very fragile. Having zero signal loss here is simply awesome.

    PS to the OP, this type of exercise is inherently flawed, as when you upload to Soundcloud, the audio gets compressed and converted, so any subtle differences will be lost by definition.

    ^They aren't necessarily lost. Compressing and converting different source material often compounds existing issues.


    I definitely hear the differences, although they are subtle.
    The Saffire with the Mytek clock is significantly 'smoother' in the high mids - which is funny because there's probably more jitter involved than in the internal clock sample. Either way, it would work great on some things but might make things drown in the mix a bit more.


    The M101 through TOSlink is a clear winner for me. Meaty and defined.
    Again, funny stuff. Coaxial S/Pdif should be, objectively speaking, better.


    The Kemper's S/Pdif is probably the worst of the bunch, but also probably the 'cleanest' example of the signal. The highs sound a bit 'detached', by comparison.
    I'm guesstimating, but maybe some of the stranger transients get lost in the circuitry's switching time, which could smooth out some of the more dissonant overtones.
    EDIT: meaning, lost in the Kemper's analog circuitry.


    But, enough dog-whistle-speak for today :)

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Edited once, last by Quitty ().

    Quote from sambrox

    PS to the OP, this type of exercise is inherently flawed, as when you upload to Soundcloud, the audio gets compressed and converted, so any subtle differences will be lost by definition.


    I knew this was going to be part of the discussion haha! I can up the wav file to Dropbox if anyone would like.


    Note that prior to doing this I did tests uploading different bit depths and dithered vs undithered wav files to see what had the best conversion. 44.1 24bit undithered had the best result.



    Thanks for the thoughts! What are you monitoring on?

    Do the test yourself because compressed files are useless for any kind of analysis. Use a clean profile without effects. Record wave files into a DAW. The differences are not subtle unless you are hearing impaired. Too bad 48k isn't an option. Recording: 48k vs 44.1= 48k superior HF. Too bad KPA can't be slaved to DAW vs. Master. In the future model please!

    Will

    Edited 2 times, last by WillB ().

    Quote from Quitty

    ^They aren't necessarily lost. Compressing and converting different source material often compounds existing issues.

    True, but can also in the same way mask others, or even worsen any small issues. As I said, inherently flawed. Uploading wavs to Dropbox would be a more scientific approach.

    Quote from tylerhb

    Playing the KPA over the analog outs does not make a big difference compared to SPDIF. However, for recording and reamping DI tracks i would definitely go for SPDIF. Raw guitar DI signals are very fragile. Having zero signal loss here is simply awesome.


    I think the return input on the kemper reamps from a line level signal. And it can output the DI track at line level as well (fortunately ;-)) - it's called "git studio".
    And studios have been using reamp boxes for ages for reamping as well.


    Not that I don't agree with you - the SPDIF option makes everything a breeze :) If I had no other options, though, I would not be at all worried using the old method.

    Also I'd like to point out (though you're probably all aware) that tests such as these can't really directly compare the kemper spdif and the kemper analogue out - the "kemper analogue out" is affected by stuff like:
    - the tone and inherent distortion/saturation/whatever of the preamp
    - the cleanness of the preamp (noise)
    - (both the preceding points are also affected by how hard the signal is hitting the preamp)
    - the interface's A/D converter and the kemper's D/A converter (both of which I truly think is negligible here, but included for sake of completeness).
    - Maybe some other stuff too I'm too lazy to think about. It's friday, man!!!


    In the above points, take "preamp" as meaning "the whole analogue chain from the kemper's D/A converter and all the way to the interface's A/D converter" (some of which will, admittedly, exist in the kemper - but my meagre point still stands.)


    I'm sure I couldn't hear a difference if I tried, so I haven't listened to the clips - but are they level matched really well (before uploading to soundcloud)?

    This thread reminded me of when I did the SPDIF vs. Analog out of the KPA to DAW test and it made me think!


    I have a device manufactured by Audio Research Corporation (DAC3) that is a DAC for a specific purpose in their product line (brief description below) - Take SPDIF out of their CD player and convert it to analog - for ingestion by preamp to amp to LS. It is a hybrid device with solid state devices, convertors and vacuum tubes. Balanced Class A output stage. It is 44.1k to analog only. It sounds excellent when used for their intended purpose ie. CD.


    I am going to try this DAC from the SPDIF out of the KPA to my DAW.


    "The DAC3MKII uses a high-performance monolithic input receiver and a
    delta-sigma converter supplied to Audio Research by Crystal Semiconductor. The
    differential converter is capable of 107 dB dynamic range in the audio band, and
    includes 8x interpolation and a 64x oversampled delta-sigma modulator which
    outputs to an all-tube (four 6922 twin triodes), class A operation analog output
    stage. Constant-current source technology and highly regulated power supplies
    similar to Audio Research's best preamplifiers contribute to the natural
    musicality of the output stage. The suppression of sonically destructive jitter
    in the DAC3MKII is accomplished via three primary methods: by two
    voltage-control oscillators used to reclock data in the digital interface and in
    a phase-lock-loop circuit just prior to the analog stage; and by extensive
    internal damping of critical components and chassis areas to minimize mechanical
    resonances.A detachable AC line cord has built-in filtering.
    Among other conveniences, the DAC3MKII offers selectable phase inversion via
    a front-panel toggle switch. The DAC3MKII offers a full array of digital inputs
    for compatibility with any high-quality CD/LD transport or player, and provides
    both-single ended and balanced analog output connectors for similar
    compatibility with high-quality line-level preamplifiers."

    Will