New band setup...help needed!

  • Hi guys...happy new year to all of you!


    In my main band we play in-ear most of the time and I got used to it. Happy with my sound...all good.


    I'm currently helping out in another band and they do not play in-ear.
    It's a classic 80s/90s rock cover band (AC/DC, Black sabbath etc.).
    Drum, Bass, Singer and 2 guitars.


    The other guitar-player runs a Marshall JCM 800 through a 4x12 cab. Sounds awesome.


    I now tried my DXR-10 and my Matrix Q12...but my guitar is hardly noticeable.
    It's not a matter of loudness....the energy, the meat of the tone is somehow lost. When I play alone in the same room...it's all good.


    So my question is: Should I bring (=schlepp!) my 2x12 guitar cab? Will that help?
    Or am I just used to in-ears and no other amp/cab will sound good anymore?


    What's your experience?


    Rainer

  • Happy New... :-)


    what means hardly noticeable?
    Do you have problems to hear yourself? Or is ist a problem your bandmembers have?
    In rehearsal or live situations?


    In the first case I would suggest to find a more useful position for your speaker?!
    A 4X12" can move more air but at least I think the profile you are using is maybe the problem?!
    Standalone it sound great but in context with a band it´s less assertive.


    Regards
    Ralf

  • There was a member on here who had the same issue the other week. He finally solved it by finding the right profile. What sounds good on its own at low volume will not sound the same at higher volumes and in a band situation. Also remember to not share the same frequencies as the other instruments. for example bass and Kick drum will sit between 40-125hz so your guitar wont want to much of that

  • Well, I gather it's a new band situation.
    Your fellow guitar player with his Marshall JCM 800 through a 4x12 cab eats up a lot of sonic space probably.
    Sit down with the others first to talk about arrangements and what sonic territory is to be occupied by the 2 guitarists.
    Then take the profiles you like or are accustomed to and go from there.
    In case you're using similar sounds (like if you happen to use a JCM 800 profile) you can both step on each other's feet very easily.
    Making yourself simply louder won't be a solution in this case, that's why I said talk first.

  • Thanks for your tips. You're probably right.


    I have the following options (this is a temporary band project...I'm just helping out for a couple of months):

    • Use my Matrix Q12 and find/tweak profiles
    • Bring my 2x12 and then find/tweak profiles
    • Bring my old Marshall and use that for this band

    I'll figure it out. Thanks again!

  • Keep us updated. I'm in a similar position and so far the only thing I've found that projects like a guitar amp in the room is a guitar amp in the room. As you mention this is also more obvious when somebody else is using a normal amp as well.

  • Keep us updated. I'm in a similar position and so far the only thing I've found that projects like a guitar amp in the room is a guitar amp in the room. As you mention this is also more obvious when somebody else is using a normal amp as well.


    Nope.
    Before I finally sold my Marshall 6100 full stack with 2 4x12" cabs or my Vox AC 30 HW I made sure to verify that the projection with my Atomic CLR is indeed much better than any guitar amp I've ever played. No BS but a plain fact.

  • Thats interesting Ingolf. Did you try going direct to a guitar cab at all before going with the Atomic? With so many variables having an effect its hard to determine if projection issues are related to profiles and setting or the power amp / cab combination. My guess would be some of each but it would be good to hear from somebody who has struggled with getting good sound projection through a guitar cab and found FRFR to work better.

  • Thats interesting Ingolf. Did you try going direct to a guitar cab at all before going with the Atomic? With so many variables having an effect its hard to determine if projection issues are related to profiles and setting or the power amp / cab combination. My guess would be some of each but it would be good to hear from somebody who has struggled with getting good sound projection through a guitar cab and found FRFR to work better.


    I did A/B's all the time. I was testing the mighty Marshall and the Vox against the Kemper, also the Kemper into the FX return of the Marshall or straight into the Marshall cab (Celestion G75T's) or the Vox Alnico Blue's. I also kept a Palmer 1x 12" with a Greenback in it.
    The result is/was always the same: The Atomic CLR projects much better and beams much less. This is not surprising though when looking at its specs.

  • I concur with Ingolf on this. I've been using a CLR for almost 2 yrs and now I don't have to stand right in front of my amp to hear clearly. I used a 2-12 ADA and a 2-12 PV cab, both loaded with celestians before that for the first year I had my KPA

  • I did A/B's all the time. I was testing the mighty Marshall and the Vox against the Kemper, also the Kemper into the FX return of the Marshall or straight into the Marshall cab (Celestion G75T's) or the Vox Alnico Blue's. I also kept a Palmer 1x 12" with a Greenback in it.
    The result is/was always the same: The Atomic CLR projects much better and beams much less. This is not surprising though when looking at its specs.


    Good to know Ingolf. As I said in my main band we play in-ears, I'm the only guitar player and we play "experimental rock" with lot's of Kemper effects. No sound issues at all....Kemper is great here


    The new band situation brings 2 guitars, (almost) no effects...just AC/DC style rock.
    The solution is clearly: Find the right profiles and the right speaker.


    For this temporary "job" I just want the fastest route to a decent tone....might be the Marshall Half stack. Investing days of A/B comparisons are probably not worth the time.
    How long did it take you to find your perfect solution/setup?

  • Investing days of A/B comparisons are probably not worth the time.
    How long did it take you to find your perfect solution/setup?


    Not very long. I did the A/B- ing mainly to prevent myself from fooling myself.
    As the CLR clearly was the winner in all A/B scenarios I finally was able to sell my amps without any regrets.

  • I would use a real guitar cabinet with the KPA poweramp or a transistor Amp (for example Palmer Macht 402) and the new merged Profiles.
    I have tested a lot of Solutions (Monitors, Matrix Q12, Xitone, ...) and now I am back an a real Guitar-Cabs. It's simply the best ;-)

    Fender Am. Strat Standard | Fender Elite Standard | Ibanez AZ 2204 | Gibson Les Paul Standard | Suhr Standard Plus | Epiphone ES-335 Lim. Ed. |

    Kemper Stage | Kemper Kone | Line6 HX Stomp | Strymon Sunset | Line 6 Relay G30 |

    LD Systems U500 InEar | Behringer X32 Compact


    SKEEN - Join The Revolution In Screen Protection

  • I have played in several similar bands. Less gain and a little more MId-range is your friend ;) I tend to play with more full range tones when I'm in my home studio or in a one guitar band, Those same tones get lost in a two guitar power rock band. I find the the mid boost tend to really cut thru. I like to start with a 5150, Ken Morrow or Wizard profile.


    Maybe I have just been lucky but it works for me !

  • Call me a traitor :-) ....
    ....but I decided last night to use my Marshall head in this new (temporary) band (JVM 205h).
    It took us 1 minute to setup the sound for the 2 guitar players.


    However, when I have time I will do an A/B comparison with the Kemper in that same room.


    Thank's again for all the great tips and hints.

  • Update: I could not live w/o the Kemper in this band :-)


    So I did my A/B comparison:
    Marshall 205 with 4x12 cab
    Kemper with Matrix Q12 passive FRFR cab
    Kemper with Engl 2x12 guitar cab


    Marshall: Great sound...no issues in the band mix
    Matrix: Great sound...gets really loud...but in the band context hard to hear (independent from profile)


    The other guitar player is playing a 1972 single channel Marshall (has to be cranked to sound good) connected to a 4x12 plus 2x12 cab.
    As @Ingolf pointed out...he is moving a lot of air.


    The Kemper on a 4x12 looks a bit lost...so I brought my 2x12 Engl cab.


    Sound? Great! In band context? Great! No problems at all.


    The Engl cab is slanted (= the upper speaker is Pointing to your ears)...this might be the real advantage/trick here.


    SO......the Kemper is back and I'm really happy to have great sound AND convenience of noise gates/effects etc.


    Thanks for your help!


    P.S. I have some questions regarding settings with guitar cabs...but will start a new thread.







    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/F0zxLRc.jpg]


    Here's a stock photo showing the slanted cab.


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