AxeFx "Profiling" vs. KPA

Still own AFX and KPA since Dec. 2011. It's not easy to tell wich feels better. The AFX reacts very good when you vary your picking or roll back the volume, it's almost like with a real amp. But it's a long way to good presets.For me finding the right cabs is the keystep to come to good results. Even then you can hear the special voice that the AFX has. At the other side the KPA feels wrong when I roll back the volume, small turns have too much impact compared to what I expect and it's irritating. Ok, nothing to worry about, so I got to get used to make smaller turns. But it has an own voice too! As long as I feel a difference between the modelers and the real amps, wich I can say for both, AFX and KPA, it's hard to say if one is better than the other. All I can say is that both add their own voice. Don't flame me. There will come a time when a KPA2 and an AFX3 will be released because there is still room for improvements. or is there anyone claiming that this is the end of the evolution?.

Quote from schneidas

Very true!
I think it's funny that some are cancelling their KPA orders just based on the fact that Cliff stated he will offer profilling too. No one knows if his take on profiling will have the quality and realism of the KPA. Again - hype machine!

Yes it's true, i'm one of them, (and 4 other people i personally know) I was interested on the KPA, mostly to experiment, not because I was unhappy with the AXE II, having been using the Axe from the start, I trust Cliff's word, and it would make no sense to get the KPA at this time, I like C.Kemper's work I've owned a few Virus Synths, and they're very nice, and obviously the KPA judging from the clips I've heard sounds very nice as well, so I hope Kemper does well, i just won't need one now.

Quote from MaxTwang

I'm the opposite, I've had the KPA ordered since early June (before the Axe waiting list started) and received an AxeII in September. While I'm happy with the AxeII to the point I'm selling off other gear, I know I won't be satisfied until I give the KPA a chance and had both for long enough to see which one I plug into most, if not all, of the time. I don't care about realness or accuracy, my criteria is which one do I enjoy playing - when I wake up in the middle of the night, which one gets me out of bed to play. If it's both, I'll keep both.

The announcement by FAS just makes me wan't both even more. I'll have a ring-side seat to the web-hype smack-down AND be able to evaluate and enjoy the technological advances myself.

+1 on this!
I would be interested to know in which department the Axe FXII (from a subjective point of view) complements the KPA (apart from yeah the effects but that's objective isn't it). I think a spoiled kid like me would enjoy (sex with) both the units, why not . So lucky bast!rds who own both of them let me know what you like of the AXE and what you like of the KPA (and also which position they perform better --just silly jokes had a tough day apologies if that offended anybody). Thank you very much!

Quote from uweoverdrive

I´ve had a axe standard for 3 years and now I´use a kemper for 5 weeks. Yesterday my AXE II arrives.

Besides the bugs that will be solved in the near future there is only one thing that is better in the AXE and that is the playing feeling.

The axe responds better and deeper to the pick attack. The other things as mentioned incl. the price difference are superior in the kemper.

And so the question is: Is this something that´s only may opinion and if not could this be bettered with an future update by kemper !!!!!!

I think the playing feel is as important as the sound.

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I disagree there. The dynamics and feel of the KPA are more accurate. You just have to profile and amp with it and do A/B comparison between the real amp and the profile to see that. Right now in the only place where the Axe FX II is superior is in the quality and number of effects and I am sure the KPA will never get close in that area.

uweoverdrive - It's interesting to know about the Axe and pick attack feel, is that including adjusting the pick attack control in the Kemper? Do you feel it's a particular dynamics issue or a difference in latency?

I was thinking that maybe the amps internal compressor would allow you to adjust the dynamic behavior of the Kemper too, to adjust the curve for when rolling back the volume on the guitar or changing pick style to make it more or less responsive/reactive. If not then maybe Christoph could add that feature?

It is Hard to describe for me. It is no latency because when you pick the tone is very fast to hear.
It is no dynamic problem because the kemper is very dynamic. It is a Little Bit like playing through a Transistor amp, the tone comes fast but is Hard and Not so elastic like a good tube amp or the axe.

I'm a Little Bit sad because everything else is better with the Kemper like easy to use, the sound an so on.
I fear that this could be Hardware Thing that couldnt be changed or updated

In the moment i'm Not able to dial this Out with the compressors.

Please help me Christof Kemper

MadH i haven't profiled anything yet. Is ist possible when you compare the Amp
With the profile that both are Running through the Kemper Hardware ?

Quote from uweoverdrive

MadH i haven't profiled anything yet. Is ist possible when you compare the Amp
With the profile that both are Running through the Kemper Hardware ?

Sorry but I don't understand your question.

MaxTwang: i have the Same opinion as you and sadly the feel and the wanna Play Thing you describe is bigger with the Axe

Quote from uweoverdrive

It is Hard to describe for me. It is no latency because when you pick the tone is very fast to hear.
It is no dynamic problem because the kemper is very dynamic. It is a Little Bit like playing through a Transistor amp, the tone comes fast but is Hard and Not so elastic like a good tube amp or the axe.

I'm a Little Bit sad because everything else is better with the Kemper like easy to use, the sound an so on.
I fear that this could be Hardware Thing that couldnt be changed or updated

In the moment i'm Not able to dial this Out with the compressors.

Please help me Christof Kemper

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Interesting. Though given that the KPA's dynamics should be set by the amp's dynamics then the obvious thing would be to find out what happens if you profile your AxeFX! Whether the result is something that then feels the same as the Axe or not. If not then it's something that Christoph should investigate further and adjust (or offer an adjustment control for).

Quote from MaxTwang

I don't care about realness or accuracy, my criteria is which one do I enjoy playing - when I wake up in the middle of the night, which one gets me out of bed to play. If it's both, I'll keep both

Can't say it any better than that. But... yeah, me too.

Quote from uweoverdrive

It is Hard to describe for me. It is no latency because when you pick the tone is very fast to hear.
It is no dynamic problem because the kemper is very dynamic. It is a Little Bit like playing through a Transistor amp, the tone comes fast but is Hard and Not so elastic like a good tube amp or the axe.

I'm a Little Bit sad because everything else is better with the Kemper like easy to use, the sound an so on.
I fear that this could be Hardware Thing that couldnt be changed or updated

In the moment i'm Not able to dial this Out with the compressors.

Please help me Christof Kemper

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Well there you have it folks! *No* digital solution is perfect at this point - we are simply looking for the best system and most expressive platform for making serious music. Many of us are watching very closely.

This confuses me:

Why would anyone be profiling AxeFX models if they are so bogus? Seriously, isn't this a total contradiction to those who believe the Kemper is clearly superior? It seems to me their time would be much better spent doing new tube amp profiles. Personally, I say profile *anything* that inspires you to make music, but there seems to be a bit of a double standard on the AFX, no?

Quote from Radley

It seems to me their time would be much better spent doing new tube amp profiles.

+1.

I profiled my Axe2 only because I wanted to test the profiling and I had no other gear than the Axe II. Fun fact: The profiles weren't very accurate (as stated in the manual), but I often liked the (different sounding) profile of the Axe II better than the original Axe II Preset

Quote from Radley

This confuses me:

Why would anyone be profiling AxeFX models if they are so bogus? Seriously, isn't this a total contradiction to those who believe the Kemper is clearly superior? It seems to me their time would be much better spent doing new tube amp profiles. Personally, I say profile *anything* that inspires you to make music, but there seems to be a bit of a double standard on the AFX, no?

It's not a double standard if you don't have that standard to begin with. Be generous! Don't assume for others how they feel. People here just like gear and it's fun, they'll do it because they can. I don't have an Axe, but I'm sure as heck gonna try profiling the HD500 that I do have, as well as anything else I can shove a signal through.

Edit - removed the pointless guff. It was just perpetuating other guff that has no place here.

Quote from uweoverdrive

It is Hard to describe for me. It is no latency because when you pick the tone is very fast to hear.
It is no dynamic problem because the kemper is very dynamic. It is a Little Bit like playing through a Transistor amp, the tone comes fast but is Hard and Not so elastic like a good tube amp or the axe.

I'm a Little Bit sad because everything else is better with the Kemper like easy to use, the sound an so on.
I fear that this could be Hardware Thing that couldnt be changed or updated

In the moment i'm Not able to dial this Out with the compressors.

Please help me Christof Kemper

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I think this is probably a 'quality of profile' issue.
iI hate to flog a dead horse, as I have said this before, but Ive profiled 3 amps now using the direct out of my palmer PDI03.
The only way to do a 'true' comparison was to make the monitoring/comparing setup as close as possible, so after profiling this was my setup for comparison purposes...(Remember these are direct profiles for playback through power amp/cab)
1. Guitar>Lehle 3@1>KPA>AtomicFRFR>Marshall 1960cab (left side)
2. Guitar>Lehle 3@1>EVH amp (speaker out)>palmer PDI03>Atomic FRFR>Marshall 1960cab (Right side).
Notice the only difference between 1 and 2 is the KPA on 1 and the EVH amp and palmer (which is exactly what was profiled) on 2.

Usin the lehle to switch between the two I really can't tell the difference in terms of feel at all. In fact the 'elastic 'nature of the KPA is one of the things that impresses me and makes it stand out from all the other modellers.
To make this completely level playing field I profiled/played back at the same volume.

Maybe its not so much the quality of profile as opposed to the nature of profile/playback, IMO playing guitar in a control room with the amp elsewhere feels totally different to just playing straight into an amp, and if thats the way the profile was captured, its always gonna feel that way even when you play back through an amp. Remember the profile was made going through a mic and quite possibly also a mixing desk. Thats always gonna have some effect (good or bad depending on your perspective) on the end result.