Preventing soundmen's mistakes

    Usually on smaller gigs/festivals, there's either a 4x12" Marshall/Orange or a Fender Twin on the backline and I typically just plug in the cab portion of either one for my monitoring on stage. I've learned to trust that what's going to FOH is very different from what I hear and if it's accommodating for everyone else, I don't mind compromising my own stage monitoring to a certain degree as long as it sounds good out there and what's coming from my bandmates' monitor is my unaltered KPA's signal which by now I know is decent.


    Bands typically follow one another during soundcheck and we are all rushed on and off stage. When I'm on, I usually just unplug the XLR from the microphone the sound crew had set up on the cabinet and plug it in one of the mains of the KPA (going mono), then have to explain to a sound guy I'm sending a direct signal (but sometimes there are language barrier/communication issues when playing in different countries). Today they had set up 2 mics on the cab (one on each speaker probably trying to go stereo?)... I did my usual routine of unplugging one and connecting the XLR to the back of the Kemper, however I found out they took the signal from the other mic (miking the twin) and not the one I was sending direct from the KPA (or mixed the 2 maybe, creating weird phase/EQ issues, god knows). I realized too late into the show what was happening and based on some people's feedback, or course it sounded a bit weird.


    So today I learned my lesson; for those who are in similar situations (venue with questionable soundmen/unfamiliar with KPA) with a similar routine of sending your direct signal to FOH + cab for stage only for monitoring: make sure no sound from the cab's mic(s) can possibly reach FOH either by disconnecting any mic from the cab so they won't be tempted or make the mistake of taking the signal from the cab (unless that's what you're going for).

    Yeah a better tip IMO is: "talk to the sound guy for two seconds and tell them what you are doing". In the end you are changing their setup, which is fine, but it should be synced to them.


    Your topic title is a bit misleading in that way. They didn't make a mistake. You changed their mic setup (apparently without their knowledge) and it led to an unexpected outcome.

    Maybe it's just where I live, but many of the sound techs around here are dumb as stones. Not only are they intolerant of loud amps, but many times they cannot wrap their heads around the fact you do NOT need mics with modelers. I had one guy that insisted on mic'ing the woofer on my FRFR, no matter how much I tried to explain the modeler had an XLR direct out, like the keyboards and mixer. He flat refused to use the direct out.


    I guess it didn't really matter, most mixes come out all drums, bass guitar and cymbals anyhow. I don't have a good view of most sound techs. But there are extremely good ones out there as well, those should be cherished.

    Maybe I'm just lucky but I've yet to come across an engineer that doesn't understand the concept of 'No mic please, just an XLR DI (or two) from the back of the head straight to the desk'.


    I have what some would deem to be a complex rig. I have a rack for my Kemper which contains a mixer for my IEMs. I'm the lead singer and even run an Akai sampler for additional sounds during the set. After introducing myself to the soundman, I'll say something like -


    'I've got bit of a quirky rig; I'm using in-ears and I'll run a cable from my vocal mic to a mic splitter. You get one feed, I get the other. I need two XLR DIs from the back of my amp and another for my sampler. But the bonus is that I don't need your monitors. You can run a FOH mix or turn them off, it doesn't matter'.


    The very fact that the lead singer/guitarist isn't asking for 'More me. More. No, I still can't hear me at all. More please. Do you actually know what you're doing mate? ' appears to endear me with them very quickly! Having been a soundman for many a band, I know just how particular some band members can be. Not saying that anyone here is being less than polite but it pays to consider it from the soundman's perspective.

    Personally, when I can, I will pay for a sound guy. If we are talking small places usually the sound people don't get paid poop, and they are some times not really up to the task from a motivational standpoint.



    If it's a proper venue, I will try to talk to them in advance, when this is possible. If it isn't then ok, in however much time I have. If nothing works, well, I pull out my tube amp rack gear that's fairy portable and that's it :)

    Quote from MKB

    Maybe it's just where I live, but many of the sound techs around here are dumb as stones. Not only are they intolerant of loud amps, but many times they cannot wrap their heads around the fact you do NOT need mics with modelers. I had one guy that insisted on mic'ing the woofer on my FRFR, no matter how much I tried to explain the modeler had an XLR direct out, like the keyboards and mixer. He flat refused to use the direct out.


    I guess it didn't really matter, most mixes come out all drums, bass guitar and cymbals anyhow. I don't have a good view of most sound techs. But there are extremely good ones out there as well, those should be cherished.

    I'd say intolerance of loud amps is a very sane thing. It is one of the reasons the Kemper has that line-out.


    I guess techs are better here, I've never experienced that kind of bullshit.

    We hand over a tech rider that sais "No eq please on the guitar, if needed only use high an low cut" and when a mixer does this we sounded fin ... if not ... not :D like i said if a mixer hears a amp on stage and hears the miced signal it is easier for him to match the sounds but if there is only the line in signal ... maaan i hear so horrible versions of my sound by now xD



    oh and since i started to add a studioEQ after teh amp with a deep cut of 4k and high and low cuts the signal gets ... well hard to mess up

    Quote from joris.griffioen

    I'd say intolerance of loud amps is a very sane thing. It is one of the reasons the Kemper has that line-out.
    I guess techs are better here, I've never experienced that kind of bullshit.

    Maybe I was coming down fairly hard on the techs around here, in fact most of them are OK. Few are excellent, and there are more bad ones than excellent ones. But the pains did happen often. One of the issues is I sometimes run sound myself, and have semi-professionally on and off for around 30 years. Plus I'm an engineer, and just don't have much patience with incompetence in technical fields when someone claims to be an expert.


    The quip on loud amps was meant to better illustrate the contempt some of them have for guitar; even though you have the perfect solution to the loud amp issue, some of the "pros" don't know about the solution and won't consider using it. They want the player to use a small tube amp at whisper levels, which usually means substandard tone. Oh, and you won't get your own monitor feed either.


    This usually happens at festivals and outdoor gigs in other cities where multiple bands are playing and sound is provided. It's of course not an issue if we're using our own PA. I don't do those gigs much any more and do not miss all the drama.