[ML Sound Lab] Amp Packs with "ML Merged Rigs"

  • I answered the two clear questions you had. I must've missed this third one. All the demos we put out are the presets loaded up in the units, I thought that would go without saying. Even the real amps in the comparison are actually the real cabinet miked up. No IR loaders anywhere. Like I said before, cab modeling is the ML IR converted. I measure just a little bit of low end missing in the conversion process so there's an EQ after the amp section correcting it. It's a very subtle difference though and actually if you could link me to the analysis of the Cab Maker conversion being bad I'd love to have a read because it's really not "that bad". Once again I would make the statement that the reason IR's in general may sound bad is because the separation between an amp and cab has not been completely successful.


    The other profile maker's cab comparison is proving exactly what I'm trying to explain here. There were "merged profiles" involved. If they were truly authentically separating the amp and cabinet they should sound authentic. They just don't and I know those profiles sound really good with the correct amp profile. IMO things can be done in a much better way so that people don't need separate profiles for different use cases because things can be done in such a way where the same profile will work with a powered Kemper and a real cabinet, SS power amp + real cabinet, SS power amp + FRFR cabinet or a powered FRFR speaker and obviously in the studio as well.




    I’m sorry what? Could you link me to the analysis that the Kemper CANT actually separate amp and cab part appropriately? Or is that kinda... like... maybe... your opinion? You want a link “to analysis” of the cab maker being bad, almost mocking the poster, yet when someone calls you out because you think, 8 years after the Kemper is released that you somehow can do a BETTER job than CK ( and claiming it’s not actually that good of separation years after 3.0 was released), you are offended? AND because you “assumed” everyone would know your work here? Lol... this gets better and better every post.

  • I’m sorry what? Could you link me to the analysis that the Kemper CANT actually separate amp and cab part appropriately? Or is that kinda... like... maybe... your opinion? You want a link “to analysis” of the cab maker being bad, almost mocking the poster, yet when someone calls you out because you think, 8 years after the Kemper is released that you somehow can do a BETTER job than CK ( and claiming it’s not actually that good of separation years after 3.0 was released), you are offended? AND because you “assumed” everyone would know your work here? Lol... this gets better and better every post.

    It was not an emotionally charged question. I was genuinely interested in knowing why I see many people saying that Cab Maker doesn't do a good job because based on my tests IR's work really well with the Kemper. I lose a bit of lows around 110hz which I can easily fix with post EQ as I do with all my profiles. (This part is saying that I think CK did a better job with Cab Maker than you guys think.) Once again I'm not emotionally charged here. Where have I said that I'm offended? Where have I said that CK is wrong? The Kemper absolutely CAN separate the amp and cab and if it couldn't then I couldn't have made these profiles. It just took a lot of testing and light bulbs to get me to a point where I wasn't getting weird artifacts. Believe me my first assumption was that I was the reason the profiles weren't merged properly but after getting some of the most respected profiles on the market and separating the amps from cabs it became clear I wasn't the only one having these issues.


    I can shoot some IR's through the profiles cab sections and show you the results. I guess I'll have to... but sensing how things have gone so far I don't see how that will lead to something positive. ^^

    IR Hate :)nice expression. It's not that, I have a ton of Ownhammer commercial IR's and I like them a lot with other plugging, TSE X50 for example. Somehow when converted to Kemper I don't like them that much. Everything it's a matter of taste, just like the better guitar hero and so on, who cares? Better is always subjective. For me saving your Mesa cab part and comparing with, for example Lasse Lammert Mesa, it's a no match, at least for my ears. But again you can give me a mix context where I like your best, and the opposite, it depends of the application I guess.

    But liked the amp part :thumbup: and the price it's hight and didn't know about the promotion :) was not advertised in the site when I bought.

    But for a fair judge I could test the MEGA OVERSIZED CAB out of Kemper :Pjust need you to borrow me for 10 minutes

    Cheers!

    For me personally this forum is the first place ever in my career where I've seen the IR format get questioned and having worked and enhanced the format for almost a decade and knowing it's capabilities it's a bit strange. Not emotionally charged strange as I can easily prove it as I have many times already. I'm not sure if it's clear to everyone but all this kind of supports what I've been trying to say all along like this "no match" that you mentioned. This is exactly what I experienced as well when using IR's with merged profiles. They just sound wrong and mathematically speaking they shouldn't. Cab Maker does a pretty good job so if the profiles don't sound good with these converted IR's then what's the issue then? The only issue can be that the merge process wasn't too clean. And this is exactly what I've been trying to say all along. It's just not an easy topic to start a conversation with.

  • I guess, what I don’t understand is, how could there be a problem with the amp portion of a merged profile, as in theory it shouldn’t matter and should be fine with an IR? The problem would lie within the cabinet section. And a dIrect amp profile/amp portion of a merged profile should have nothing to do with it, as it is the “cleanest” part of the profile, no? Yes

  • I guess, what I don’t understand is, how could there be a problem with the amp portion of a merged profile, as in theory it shouldn’t matter and should be fine with an IR? The problem would lie within the cabinet section. And a dIrect amp profile/amp portion of a merged profile should have nothing to do with it, as it is the “cleanest” part of the profile, no? Yes

    When capturing direct amp profiles, the connected cab / speakers / impedance has an influence to the sound of the amp part. That is why Kemper does not recommend using a speaker load - it does not give the best (authentic) result.


    So in "theory" we now have direct amp profiles that have the flavour of the used cab (interaction) baked in to a certain degree. If you now use another cab part or IR it is not a "perfect" fit anymore.

  • When capturing direct amp profiles, the connected cab / speakers / impedance has an influence to the sound of the amp part. That is why Kemper does not recommend using a speaker load - it does not give the best (authentic) result.


    So in "theory" we now have direct amp profiles that have the flavour of the used cab (interaction) baked in to a certain degree. If you now use another cab part or IR it is not a "perfect" fit anymore.



    Ahh yes, I totally forgot about this, had a dumb dumb moment, my apologies. Guess a load box is the way to go from now on.

  • I really got some terrible results trying a couple of loadboxes. Especially the Two Notes loadbox, it actually made my tube amp have less gain believe it or not. It was enough to scare me away from using loadboxes at all. Here's a comparison clip I made. The first one is using a real Mesa 4x12 as a load and then the others are using loadboxes and trying to compensate for the volume loss by boosting the signal and getting once again different results etc: https://soundcloud.com/mlsoundlab/real-recto-vs-axe-fx-iii

  • FREE SAMPLE: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfib…b%20FREE%20Recto.zip?dl=0



    The IR in this example is a quick mic position but now that you have this profile that's fully compatible with IR's you'll get to experience the versatility of different microphone positions just like with the ML Amp Packs. Here's an IR that should be pretty awesome as it's called the "BEST IR IN THE WORLD": https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktvz…0WORLD%20KEMPER.kipr?dl=0


    Overall I feel like talking about this stuff is never going to be enough to explain it and it's not fair to you guys to make you pay for something that you haven't experienced. It'll be best that you experience it yourself. So in this "FREE Recto" profile you have a clean separation between the amp and cab. So if you're interested in these packs you'll get to try a quick but pretty good freebie. If you're skeptical about the clean capture thing you'll get to try my profile with other people's cab captures and also you'll get to try my IR's with other people's profiles.


    Ultimately my goal was never to say that there's something wrong with the Kemper or other people's profiles. (I would be making the same statement about all these modelers if that was the case.) If you do profiles the way I do them you will not need separate profiles for different use cases and in my opinion that's a huge advantage especially with impulse response compatibility. The way you mic up your cabinet influences your guitar sound tremendously.


    I'm not sure if you have me figured out yet but I'm not a very serious person. Talking about serious stuff is not my comfort zone although I take tone very seriously. I hope this is enough to get everyone back to what's really important - having fun playing guitar.

  • Ok, I’m With ya... “trying” to be more open minded here because I love using IR’s with the Kemper, and often have better results using direct profiles with ownhammer ( preference) IR’s as a whole verses using other merged cabs with direct profiles... so I do like the concept. So your saying your profiles, the impedance etc stays with the amp section of the profile, the amp part of the “merged” profile you make correct? What about the ir though? Obviously you need an amp to shoot an an ir?

  • also I think it’s worth noting, the reason you are “probably” getting push back on ir’s compared to other digital platforms, is because of what the Kemper does in the first place. The Kemper, in layman’s terms, was Introduced and marketed in such a way, that the whole point was that you didn’t NEED ir’s, because you are making “profiles” of the Amp chain. Not saying you are wrong, just giving an explanation really.

  • Ok, I’m With ya... “trying” to be more open minded here because I love using IR’s with the Kemper, and often have better results using direct profiles with ownhammer ( preference) IR’s as a whole verses using other merged cabs with direct profiles... so I do like the concept. So your saying your profiles, the impedance etc stays with the amp section of the profile, the amp part of the “merged” profile you make correct? What about the ir though? Obviously you need an amp to shoot an an ir?

    Much appreciated and likewise I'll try my best to learn how to speak like a real person. I'll admit that I can be a bit of a robot at times so I'm already used to being misunderstood sometimes. :) Your question regarding amp color when shooting IR's is extremely accurate and on topic. I was "one" of the first people to start shooting IR's with tube amplifiers while also removing the power amp color with custom software. You have some options on how to do this but the most common way is using a high quality passive DI inbetween your amp and cab. This is ultimately the technique that gave birth to the DI capture methods for both Kemper and Fractal. I was actually doing this before the DI capture features were even announced on modeler platforms. Kind of like I was trying to do what the Kemper does with match EQ and Overloud TH2 when I was in my early twenties. After that I've kind of taken things to the next level by also questioning "everything that can cause color" like cables, preamps, amount of preamp drive and essentially everything that's in the signal chain. The goal is to get the noise level as low as possible and to get a capture that's dead flat neutral. This way I'm getting the best mic positions but not baking anything into the clean capture.

  • Hi guys! Just letting you know that we released our second Amp Pack and this time it's based on a Marshall Silver Jubilee from 1987. The pack comes with a sample cab based on a 1987 Silver Jubilee 4x12 with Marshall Vintage speakers (original Marshall V30s) and it's aptly called: "Appetite". Here's a link for more information: https://ml-sound-lab.com/products/mars-silver-kemper


    And here's a quick demo of the raw amp sounds:


    **FOR PEOPLE ASKING ABOUT DISCOUNTS**


    I'm trying out something "new" right now that's on a test period so this may be a good time to take advantage. Anyone purchasing any pack can bundle up any other pack and get 20% off on the second pack. So if you want two Cab Packs or two Amp Packs or one Cab Pack and one Amp Pack you'll get a bundle discount. You don't need any codes or anything, it's automatically done at checkout.

  • I’ve had the Mega Boogie IR pack for about a week now; and it is as good and better than stock cabs on the majority of my Favorite stored high gain rigs. With such excellent IR captures, I can know just worry about figuring out how to get great sounding direct profiles of all my heads. I’ve got a few passive load boxes on the way to try.


    The pack not only comes with Kemper .kpir files, but standard IR as well. They can be loaded into any IR loader (or converted for Two Notes) you use. This is excellent for me. I can run my tube heads into my Fryette Power Load, and right into Two Notes WOS and get an incredible tone while I work on better Direct captures with my Kemper.


    Thanks for an excellent product Mikko!

  • Interesting, I have to look at my new IRs and see. Thanks for pointing it out.

    I myself never seen an IR that sounded the same when converted to kemper format, doesn't matter how long, playing with mutes, ect, ect in A/B situation. When I use kemper, it's almost always with IRs in daw or external loader + direct profiles.


    But as Mikko said you can target making a few corrections afterwards. I haven't been able to find a perfect correction myself, but can be made better. The push at 110 is a good "general rule" for profiling too, for me.

  • Uhm, it will be interesting to at some point try out what you come up with, considering the process is somewhat unique. For the most part I've used IRs with kemper, not full studio profiles, so this may be relevant to my uses.

  • I myself never seen an IR that sounded the same when converted to kemper format, doesn't matter how long,

    There was an issue that has been recently fixed. When disabling a kemper cab there was a driver that was still running that was not supposed to.


    Kemper with a disabled cab into external IR loader was not the same as converted IR loaded into the same kemper profile. The driver in the first instance changed the frequency response. This info was posted by CK in Bommels post about IRs. Of course my memory is shit and I could be completely wrong though

  • There was an issue that has been recently fixed. When disabling a kemper cab there was a driver that was still running that was not supposed to.


    Kemper with a disabled cab into external IR loader was not the same as converted IR loaded into the same kemper profile. The driver in the first instance changed the frequency response. This info was posted by CK in Bommels post about IRs. Of course my memory is shit and I could be completely wrong though

    Using my direct profiles plus IR in and outside of kemper, I still see the same differences with latest firmware and cab maker. But I won't expand further, as may change the topic too much and derail, even if IR relevant in this thread :)

  • There was an issue that has been recently fixed. When disabling a kemper cab there was a driver that was still running that was not supposed to.


    Kemper with a disabled cab into external IR loader was not the same as converted IR loaded into the same kemper profile. The driver in the first instance changed the frequency response. This info was posted by CK in Bommels post about IRs. Of course my memory is shit and I could be completely wrong though

    I think you are completely wrong8) There was a bug, using only the cab section with the amp section turned off, the amp section still bleeded in.