Increasing volume at clean profiles

  • I'm many times struggling to get a clean sound that can compete in volume with a distorted sound. When I use a profile with a distorted profile for the intro or lead solo and have to change to a clean one (with another clean profile), then there's always a big gap in volume. What I do then is getting to the amp section en try a whole lot of other clean amps, add a booster to them etc but I'm always lack of a decent according volume. That is always much to low. in relation to the previous one.


    My powered profiler contains more than 900 profiles (with many clean ones among them) to choose from for the clean part of a song, but it's very difficult to find one that can match , even with my volume pedal to the max. So this is not workable in many cases on stage. I should be able to increase or decrease clean volume with my volume pedal

    So what I do wrong here..? Anyone recognize this?

  • What Craig F says ....

    And you can also adjust with the "Volume" knob at the front and press "Store"

    Not "Master Volume" .... the other one :)

    Too low clean ? Adjust up . Too high dist ? Adjust down till they match .....

    THEN use the "Master Volume" to the proper level for gigging .....


    Cheers !

  • I've noticed than many profilers like to crank the level (in the stack section) very high - probably to give a false impression of "sounding better" - and it's creating kind of volume war between profilers similar to what we saw in the field of pro audio. It's a bad habit that needs to be stopped for the reason you mention for one (ie. many acoustic rigs have no way to match some distorted ones). I often end up lowering that stack level variable for all profiles of a seller by a fixed 3-4 Db and compensate with giving more in the mains out. However, a rookie mistake is to have louder clean sounds than distorted because when you set them up, you adjusted them to be the same: they usually have to be much lower in the first place because of the context they are usually used in. That balance is a complex thing that takes a while to get right: when you think you have it right, record your gig and check again.

  • Hi Craig F, IngoRockt, Hoki Toki, JedMckenna and BrentKer.

    I will try all your contributions. Thank you all!


    And Brentker, I also have a DAW (Adobe Audition) Can you explain how you level volumes with a DAW for matching volumes? Is there a kind of manual for this?

  • I check the input volume for each slot in my performances while the Kemper is connected to a DAW (in my case Logic).

    Every slot reaches a max of -18db and I try to match the min volume as well (using rig volume).


    That way I’m sure that all my slots are equally as loud.


    It’s really not that complicated and the results are good :-).

  • I check the input volume for each slot in my performances while the Kemper is connected to a DAW (in my case Logic).

    Every slot reaches a max of -18db and I try to match the min volume as well (using rig volume).

    That way I’m sure that all my slots are equally as loud.

    It’s really not that complicated and the results are good :-).

    OK. Thanks. I will go for that too.


    You use Rig volume for that. I always kept in mind that Rig volume should not pass 0 Db. So I keep this always at 12 o'clock and don't dial beyond this point. Wrong thinking...?

  • I've noticed than many profilers like to crank the level (in the stack section) very high - probably to give a false impression of "sounding better" - and it's creating kind of volume war between profilers similar to what we saw in the field of pro audio. It's a bad habit that needs to be stopped

    yes I absolutely agree with your assessment Jed. It annoys me too. I came to the same conclusion as to why they insist on doing it too.


    I often end up lowering that stack level variable for all profiles of a seller by a fixed 3-4 Db and compensate with giving more in the mains out.

    this is also a great point and is a great example of why I am so keen to see bulk editing features added to Rig Manager. Another example is that many of the Tone Junkie profiles have Delay/Reverb balance set a +58%. I presume it slipped in as a mistake but it drives me crazy having to set every one back to 0% indivually.

  • I've noticed than many profilers like to crank the level (in the stack section) very high - probably to give a false impression of "sounding better" - and it's creating kind of volume war between profilers similar to what we saw in the field of pro audio. It's a bad habit that needs to be stopped for the reason you mention for one (ie. many acoustic rigs have no way to match some distorted ones). I often end up lowering that stack level variable for all profiles of a seller by a fixed 3-4 Db and compensate with giving more in the mains out. However, a rookie mistake is to have louder clean sounds than distorted because when you set them up, you adjusted them to be the same: they usually have to be much lower in the first place because of the context they are usually used in. That balance is a complex thing that takes a while to get right: when you think you have it right, record your gig and check again.

    Unfortunately, sometimes I'm one fo them too.... because of the much too low volume of the (rig manager) profile: clean or distorted! If the clean/distorted sense can solve this problem, then I know what to do from now on...!

  • Check out page 28 of the manual, as there is a setting called Clean Sens/Distortion Sens that boosts the clean rigs.

    Distortion Sens won make any difference to volatility all. However, clean sens is designed to balance the global volume between clean and overdriven rigs so is the one you want to adjust.

    Hi guys,


    In the early years of having my Profiler head I tried a lot of profiles from Rig Manager, Rig Exchange. and was many times looking for a real good clean profile. Once I found a really clean and bright good one..... except for one thing: with my Les Paul the Output led got heavily in red every time. I couldn't understand why. There was no gain to been seen in the profile , so how could I change that? Buy another guitar maybe...?

    BTW, it was this profile ...(RP1000 AC15 cln) see attachment


    Only much much later (!) I could understand the importance of this Clean and Distorted sense...

    I still use this profile but now with clean sense all the way to -12 dB. My Les Paul pickups can't handle 0 dB...!


    But since these two functions are not designed to increase volume for matching with distorted sounds the other option would be: increasing Rig volume. But like I mentioned earlier, often I'm told not to dial beyond o.0 dB there. Anyone here to comment that?

  • clean sense is specifically designed to balance the levels between clean and dirty sounds


    distortion sense is designed to control the amount of gain applied to all dirty profiles (anything with a gain value of greater than 4) but not affect clean profiles at all as far as I know. However, it should have no effect on volume.


    neither should make any significant difference to the Ouput LED going red. this is caused by something later in the chain being set too high. Probably the Amp Volume or Rig Volume. If you are struggling to balance clean and dirty sounds don’t turn the quiet one up, turn the loud one down instead. This will preserve headroom which you can make up again later by simply increasing the master volume.

  • Hi Alan, OK. That's clear to me but that doesn't explain going from red hot to green by just decreasing sense from 0 to -12 dB. So is that clean one RP 1000 profile maybe profiled d on a much too high level, is it my high output pickups or a combination of both? Hard to tell I guess.

    Ray

  • The 0 to -12db presumably refers to Clean Sense only. This should definitely have an effect on the Input LED going red which would almost certainly follow through to the output. The Clean Sense seems to have a dual purpose as an input gain and clean/dirty balance. However, the input seems to have so much headroom it is very Soto actually overload it so I wouldn’t be too worried about the input LED going red.


    I would start by getting the clean sounds at a level you are comfortable with. Then bring dirty sounds up or down to match.