Coincidentally.... I think I'm done with FRFR

  • Many people know I've been rocking the Profiler for 8 years now, and before several other modelers.

    And many people know that I've been proposing "doing the paradigm shift" from guitar speakers to so-called FRFR speakers all along.


    Well, time moves on and I've changed.

    I have played (and owned) many FRFR solutions, from highend expensive (Atomic CLR) to mid priced (Yamaha DXR 10, Ritter Amp Camper plus speaker kit) to more budget solutions (EV ZLX 12P, Headrush FRFR 108).

    I always managed to have a good, sometimes great sound. I enjoyed the consistency having a wedge in front of me when playing live.


    But the WOW factor, the thing thing that Germans call "GEIL", I was only able to get when playing over my beloved Greenback or Vintage 30 cabs.


    I have thought about this for a long time and it took some time, actually 8 years, to admit this to myself.
    But with the arrival of the new year I made this resolution for myself that I don’t want to compromise any more.


    Long story short: I sold all my remaining FRFR cabs and play my guitar cabs.


    And coincidentally this happens at the same time when Kemper come to the same conclusion and the Kabinet is about to arrive.

    I feel very confident about my move. :)

  • I guess it depends on your usage needs. For me, doing primarily solo and duo gigs, I need everything in my monitor, not just the guitar. For a band situation, perhaps things are different...

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

  • As a headphone player looking for a way to amplify my Kemper, this certainly raises some more questions. I'm looking into highend FRFR (like the german company Blueamps), studio monitors (don't like my HS80's, more something like Genelec's) and now the Kabinet. To be honest, my usage is pretty much only at home, meaning I don't need a power beast. That's why I'm also hesitating about the Kabinet, as a 12" speaker needs to move in order to sound good.


    Ingolf what do you specifically prefer about your cabs? The fact that they move air?

  • Will you be mic'ing your cabs for live shows, Ingolf , or still going direct to P.A.?

    Nothing beats going directly to P.A.

    I won’t be mic'ing my cabs, they are for my own pleasure. ;)

    And as another coincidence, Kemper don’t recommend mic'ing the Kabinet as well (I think this is more due to its twin cone/ whizzer cone construction).

  • As a headphone player looking for a way to amplify my Kemper, this certainly raises some more questions. I'm looking into highend FRFR (like the german company Blueamps), studio monitors (don't like my HS80's, more something like Genelec's) and now the Kabinet. To be honest, my usage is pretty much only at home, meaning I don't need a power beast. That's why I'm also hesitating about the Kabinet, as a 12" speaker needs to move in order to sound good.


    Ingolf what do you specifically prefer about your cabs? The fact that they move air?

    It is for a reason that guitar players love their cabs. It is more than moving air, several of my FRFR solutions were able to do this as well.

    It’s difficult to describe.
    It is for a reason that Kemper deals with this genuine listening experience when playing through a guitar cab and developing the Kabinet/Kone.

  • For me it's harmonic/musical feedback. It's a very important part of my playing and it only comes from guitar speakers.

    I really like the Kemper through my DXR10 and will use it like this when I have to, but you can't get that feedback without a guitar cab!

  • For me it's harmonic/musical feedback. It's a very important part of my playing and it only comes from guitar speakers.

    I really like the Kemper through my DXR10 and will use it like this when I have to, but you can't get that feedback without a guitar cab!

    Yes, that is a way to describe it. Guitar speakers are more musical and become a part of the instrument.

    And while I know they’re baked into a profile, when you use an FRFR speaker this important part of the instrument is only reproduced, not really interacted with.

    My personal conclusion is that guitar and cab, beginning and end of the signal chain, best remain untouched and original if you know what I mean. :)

  • I moved from a VHT rig including a 4x12 slant and a 2x12 fat bottom cab both with VHT P90 speakers. These were heavy wood closed back cabs that really punched.


    When I put the Kemper through them, no matter what profile I used, the character of the speaker severely colored the sound.


    Moving to FRFR (I just used my DSR112's that I normally use for FOH duty), I was able to get much better sound and different amp profiles sounded much more like different amps.


    What I have noticed is that the harmonic feedback between the guitar and the cab doesn't seem as good with my Kemper rig as it was with my VHT Rig. Still, overall, my sonic quality (especially FOH) has improved drastically with the KPA.


    What I still notice is that the sound quality of the KPA sounds different through different playback options:


    1) Recordings (#1). Never had such good recorded sound before.

    2) Full PA output. Again, best FOH sound ever.

    3) Headphone jack on KPA

    4) Headphone jack on my little ZED 10fx

    5) FRFR DSR112 speaker (still pretty darned good, but not as "alive" as my old VHT rig)


    Now, I only use the FRFR when I play in someone else's band (my band uses all IEM's and I go direct into the PA).... so the lower quality FRFR doesn't bother me. I still have better tone that most other guitar players with traditional amps and cabs. I have yet to have anyone give a negative comment on the KPA's tone even when it is at its worst.


    If I did find a traditional guitar cab (or kemper equivalent) that sounded better than my FRFR solution, I would likely still stay with the FRFR for convenience. My days of lugging a 4x12 cab around (let alone another 2x12 fat bottom) are wayyyyyy over :) ).

  • I moved from a VHT rig including a 4x12 slant and a 2x12 fat bottom cab both with VHT P90 speakers. These were heavy wood closed back cabs that really punched.


    When I put the Kemper through them, no matter what profile I used, the character of the speaker severely colored the sound.

    I fully get what you’re saying, but reading between the lines you make the same experience with FRFR vs a traditional cab and you rationalize the advantages of FRFR over a guitar cab (and nothing’s wrong with that).

    But still I think you'd agree that the cab's got the edge vs the FRFR.

    For me it's easy: I'm mainly a Vox (and to a lesser extent Marshall) guy, so a Greenback with it’s coloration will always serve me well.

    If you need more speaker types and more diversity all and all, then: enter the Kemper Kabinet/Kone. ;)

  • I sure wish someone would do a rig rundown with Metheny because I'd love to know how he's using his Kemper with the wide variety of instruments he plays. I imagine he's using some amazing sounding speaker rig as well.

  • I did some shows where I needed to swap between acoustic and electric guitars, a while back. For this, being able to choose the FRFR option was a godsend, as the acoustic wouldn't have sounded good through regular guitar speakers.

    That's the beauty of the Kemper: choices!

  • do you have powered KPA or if not what do you use to power your cabs?

  • I have consistently been frustrated and uninspired by all the frfr solutions I have tried. I tried them all (almost) It wasn’t until recently that I jumped in the deep end and tried the Valvetrain MBritt Stage 50. Crazy money but I finally found an inspiring live tone that competes with all valve options in a small room environment.

  • It’s difficult to describe.


    It is for a reason that Kemper deals with this genuine listening experience when playing through a guitar cab and developing the Kabinet/Kone.

    first, this reminds me very much on those very subjective opinions on different guitar types - I consider this as just subjective impressions. People in fact cannot really tell what experiences and in impressions they felt. So, to other people it is not really comprehensible.


    Then: Kemper always held the flag high of beeing able to profile real cabinets. And of course, to hear different cabs with a profiler rig you have to use a neutral speaker system, therefore FRFR. Now, this would be a turning point if Kemper "detected" what you think you've found. If I really understand the concept of the new Kemper cabinet and the new cabinet effects with the profiler (different sounds choosable for the Kabinet), then this is nothing different from FRFR.

  • first, this reminds me very much on those very subjective opinions on different guitar types - I consider this as just subjective impressions. People in fact cannot really tell what experiences and in impressions they felt. So, to other people it is not really comprehensible.


    Then: Kemper always held the flag high of beeing able to profile real cabinets. And of course, to hear different cabs with a profiler rig you have to use a neutral speaker system, therefore FRFR. Now, this would be a turning point if Kemper "detected" what you think you've found. If I really understand the concept of the new Kemper cabinet and the new cabinet effects with the profiler (different sounds choosable for the Kabinet), then this is nothing different from FRFR.

    I think you’re not getting what I'm saying at all.

    Of course Kemper held the flag high, and rightly so, in being able to profile real cabinets.

    This has never been the question and was never doubted.

    This thread (and also the conception of the Kemper Kone/Kabinet) is about a different LISTENING EXPERIENCE guitar cab vs FRFR.

    And it seems you don’t understand the concept of the Kemper Kabinet because the speaker imprints are everything but not FRFR.