[Public Beta] PROFILER OS 8.0.0.21450

  • No, not this. It's been a long thread so it seems you missed it, but multiple users have now reported this issue on multiple units. Kemper's amp behaves as expected when pushed with an external pedal, but when pushed with an internal drive pedal's volume, it does not behave as expected and its perceived volume decreases.

    Who else reported this?


    This is the exact issue Lightbox is suffering:

    A significant volume decrease at high pedal volume settings beyond +2.5, in combination with an atypical change in sound, that happens with every pedal (not just the KD).

  • Ok folks, here's a last attempt to enable you to reproduce what I experience. First I will explain what I want to achieve, then I add a step-by-step guide what to do. Hope this helps and wraps up this topic (for me). :)

    Please take the time to read carefully if you're interested!


    What I want to achieve:

    • Consider the Tube Thomsen amp profile to be a profile of a single channel amp. I want to have access to the entire bandwidth of sounds from clean to blasting heavy rock distortion (not quite high gain metal though) in the same way I would/could do with the amp, my guitar and the overdrive pedal.
    • So the basic profile with guitar pickup volume at max but without any overdrive should give me a barely crunchy sound, just a bit beyond breakup ... when I strum hard.
    • When I strum soft, do a bit medium to soft single note stuff and/or roll down the guitar volume knob a bit the sound completely cleans up. Nice.
    • Now I want to "rock" this rig and I need an overdrive to help pushing the amp profile (the virtual tubes) way beyond "slightly crunchy". With guitar volume at max and hard strumming, I want to create a glorious blast that rocks the walls.
    • But of course I can still roll down guitar volume to tame the distortion down to a pretty crunchy tone with relatively soft strumming and also a more cleanish tone with soft single-note picking.

    Result: With my tube amp and an overdrive pedal I can cover all bases (minus "high gain" metal).


    Now we want to get this exact same range on the Kemper Profiler.


    How to reproduce:

    1. First load the Tube Thomsen profile I had posted earlier with my first video demo.
    2. Make sure that all stomps other than the Kemper Drive are empty.
    3. Switch the Kemper Drive OFF for now.
    4. Also check that Clean Sens, Dist Sens, Reamp Sens, Rig Volume, Volume in the AMP block are set to default (0.0).
    5. After a few moments of noodling and testing the slight dynamics of the pure profile, please record a DI track in your DAW. You can (if you like) record a bit of softer playing but the important part is that you record some hard strumming as well. Just imagine you're on stage and want to rock the house. It might feel a bit weird without the Kemper Drive engaged but we'll get there shortly.
    6. Now setup your DAW, audio interface and the Kemper Profiler for reamping.
    7. When you playback the hard strumming DI into the Profiler (make a loop in your DAW!), make sure that the Profiler's input LED very briefly goes into yellow at least for the hard strummed transients! In your DAW you can adjust the levels accoringly just in case your DI track was too hot or too low. This step is crucial!
    8. Now switch the Kemper Drive ON to boost the amp profile. No need to go nuts with the Kemper Drive Gain, just keep it relatively low.
    9. And now, finally start changing the Volume parameter of the Kemper Drive. Go down to reduce the boost and gradually reduce the amp distortion, go slowly up to increase the boost (and amp distortion).
    10. From about +2.3 or +2.5 up you'll not get more "open sounding" boost. You should be able to clearly hear how between +3.0 and +5.0 the sound starts to "step back", "compresses down" and sounds less "open".


    Final thoughts:

    If you compare this with a real overdrive pedal that offers plenty of output in front of a real tube amp with plenty of headroom, you'll not get this effect at all. You can even try the real overdrive pedal in front of your Profiler, push the Output volume of the pedal considerably and the result will go way further than the Kemper Drive at max.

    Of course, there might also be clipping introduced because the Kemper's input LED will likely turn red with this serious boost in front. There's no digital clipping in real tube amps.

    But the entire experiment is only to show how limited the boosting options inside the Profiler actually are, compared to the real world amps and pedals. The fact that we can't even use the full range of the Kemper Drive volume (in the above scenario) without this "compression", "limiting" and "stepping back" is disappointing (to me) and has absolutely nothing to do with real world possibilities ... what I tend to call "headroom" and "dynamic range".


    Thanks for reading and cheers

    Martin

  • Why so much text and drama?


    Here is my simple workflow for testing this issue:


    1. Download Martins Rig: the Tube Thomsen profile I had posted earlier with my first video demo.

    2. Import it by Rig Manager or USB stick.

    3. Play the Rig (Named "ixbTubeThomsenKD")

    4. Go to Module B (active Kemper Drive inside)

    5. Check for KDs volume parameter set to +2.2.

    6. Increase volume parameter to +5.0


    The distortion should intensify as you would expect.

    On Martins Profilers the volume drops in that moment and the sound is weird, as can be seen on his videos.

  • I do think that my KPA reacts the same way as lightbox 's does.


    I am willing to do any test to help in this question. But I do think that it would give us more consistent results working with the same DI.


    I could make one myself but I think it would be better if lightbox could create one that produces the issue for him and then share it with us so we can go and check it on our own profilers under the most similar conditions.

  • I do think that my KPA reacts the same way as lightbox 's does.


    I am willing to do any test to help in this question. But I do think that it would give us more consistent results working with the same DI.


    I could make one myself but I think it would be better if lightbox could create one that produces the issue for him and then share it with us so we can go and check it on our own profilers under the most similar conditions.

    It's all on his videos.

    You should perceive a significant and unnatural volume drop, along with a weakening in sound, when you increase KD volume from +2.2 to +5.0.

    Absolutey obvious as in the videos.


    The reason that you are not sure might be that you don't perceive something unnatural.

  • Because I made sure that someone interested in actual testing would get exacly what's going on. Your shortened list skips the important bits.

    This (above) comment from you is really offending after the MANY hours I've put into this.

    Over and Out.

    Sorry to cut it down.


    I can see that it took hours for you to build a large story about our general inability and misconception about how to make an overdrive pedal and combine it with an amp.

    You tend to deny the possibilty that there is a specific problem with your units, that I would like to detect and fix.


    Please be aware that no single user except you has reported this exact behaviour.

    And you experience this with ALL effects.


    Your approach is thinking that your fellow Profiler don't know enough about guitar amps and are unable to detect such an anormaly by ear. This is why you spent hours in teaching me and your fellow users how a rig is functioning since 40 years.


    My approach is to assume it's a bug occuring in a specific sitiuation, as no one has confirmed it yet, and help user how like to test it, by clear instructions. I am confident that your fellow users are able to detect it by ear, the same way you did it.

  • Please be aware that no single user except you has reported this exact behaviour.

    To be a bit more direct in my response to you this time ... you're still in a state of denial and WANT it to be an issue with my Profilers (note the plural). Atlantic gets the same in his test, so why do you keep singling me out?

    It's really annoying at this point and to be perfectly honest with you ... I've lost interest in trying to help you.

    First you whine about nobody actually showing you and demoing potential issues in detail. Then when someone does exactly that, you start denying, refuse to follow the exact steps to reproduce, keep saying that I'm the only ever to have this issue and even start offending me.

    I'll just keep doing my thing and you do your thing. It's fine. Won't happen again any time soon.

  • Download the rig. I'm not set up for recording, but direct into the kemper kone with a strat and the drive appears to work as it should. Unless ive missed something

    to be able to do the test right it is important that the input signal of the guitar or the reamped DI is quite high. The input led of the KPA should be turning yellow . It is unlikely that you get this with a regular strat if it has not very hot pickups or if you don't play extremely loud. It is during that time, when the input led is yellow, that the problem arises with lightbox setup.


    When the input led is always green, on my experience everything works as it should.


    I will do my own tests again this afternoon again and report back.

  • to be able to do the test right it is important that the input signal of the guitar or the reamped DI is quite high. The input led of the KPA should be turning yellow . It is unlikely that you get this with a regular strat if it has not very hot pickups or if you don't play extremely loud. It is during that time, when the input led is yellow, that the problem arises with lightbox setup.


    When the input led is always green, on my experience everything works as it should.


    I will do my own tests again this afternoon again and report back.

    I have exactly the same results. It is happens only when reamping with very hot signal. Cannot replicate this with live guitar.

  • to be able to do the test right it is important that the input signal of the guitar or the reamped DI is quite high. The input led of the KPA should be turning yellow . It is unlikely that you get this with a regular strat if it has not very hot pickups or if you don't play extremely loud. It is during that time, when the input led is yellow, that the problem arises with lightbox setup.


    When the input led is always green, on my experience everything works as it should.


    I will do my own tests again this afternoon again and report back.


    I have exactly the same results. It is happens only when reamping with very hot signal. Cannot replicate this with live guitar.

    i see thanks for the clarification. i was thinking how nice it sounds testing it out

  • I have exactly the same results. It is happens only when reamping with very hot signal. Cannot replicate this with live guitar.


    to be able to do the test right it is important that the input signal of the guitar or the reamped DI is quite high. The input led of the KPA should be turning yellow . It is unlikely that you get this with a regular strat if it has not very hot pickups or if you don't play extremely loud. It is during that time, when the input led is yellow, that the problem arises with lightbox setup.


    When the input led is always green, on my experience everything works as it should.


    I will do my own tests again this afternoon again and report back.

    Interesting.

    What do you experience exactly?

    A volume drop or signal degradaton or both?


    How does the signal react when you keep the KD volume at +5.0 but lower the reamping volume?

  • ckemper In my opinion hot signal from reamping(SPDIF) input (set to light up yellow led)

    gets more and more distorted (saturated)but without volume boost (above 2.2 on KD) . The main question for me is why the overdrive in the loop is able to drive the AMP more without this saturation(in lightbox example video). Perhaps the loop input has a different dynamic range?

    As I said I cannot drive KPA that hard with live guitar and the KD works fine then incereasing volume fom 0 to 5.

  • I am getting a stack of clicks on SPDIF with the 2nd beta - no issue with the first beta. I saw another poster mention the same a couple of days back. Has there been a revision to deal with these?

    I also have these clicks. But i think i had it already with the first beta 8 (not sure).
    At first I thought it was only my profiler as i have a loose contact in my spdif socket.


    EDIT: i was slower than Kemper support :-)

  • a new Beta that fixes this is in the works.

    Thankyou, good to know - btw I currently have installed build 8.0.1.21815B, build date Oct 27. The current download has same number without the B and kaos.bin is dated Oct 28 but I assume the "B" might simply mean beta and despite the date difference (2 am on 28th) it is the same build.