Whats wrong with RM and Performances?

  • I sent a video of some erratic behaviour I was experiencing to support last week. They came ack and pointed out a mistake I was making. Since changing my usage it has worked flawlessly. It might be too soon to be sure but it looks like it might have been my fault all along.


    so here is what was happening in my case.


    I would set KPA to performance mode and open RM


    Next I would select the Local Library Performance folder (or a sub folder of this) in RM


    From there I would Right Click and select Create New Performance. (Here is where It went wrong for me).


    I assumed that the new performance I created would be ready to start filling the Rig Slots and re naming editing etc. That would make sense to me logically. However, the performance that is really being edited in this scenario is actually the last performance used on tue KPA not the new performance in RM.


    My next step would normally be to open a new RM window with the rig browser pane and start selecting rigs by Double Clicking. However, when I double clicked the rig didn’t populate the desired slot in the new performance. Instead it filled slot 1 (or the last used slot in the KPA performance). Didn’t notice this behaviour at first. I just assumed double clicking to add rigs wasn’t working.


    Anyway, it looks like the “bug” may have turned out to be simply that you need to Create New Performance then Double Click on that newly created performance to load it the KPA and enter the edit state. You will know that RM and KPA are actin sync and ready for editing when the KPA shows “LIB” on the screen. If the KPA doesn’t show LIB then it isn’t ready to create or edit the performance. It seems a little weird to me that I need to create the new performance in RM then also double click on it to select it before actually filling the slots but that seems to be the process.


    Can anyone else having issues check whether they still occur is the KPA actually showed LIB when editing?

  • Mine seems to have been working fine since I became aware of this little quirk and complied with it. It feels a little counter intuitive trhat creating a new performance doesn't automatically load the newly created performance into the edit state without first double clicking to select but I think missing this step might be the root of most peoples problems now that I have been working with it.

  • I don’t create a new performance. I just select one of the remaining empty ones and edit that and yet I still have glitches with saving, renaming etc. (such as not letting me rename a slot or not saving it consistently) I’m not sure the glitches are that predictable and it doesn’t sound like the fix others mention will work. Only yesterday I noticed somehow the patch I had in slot one in a few performances had somehow overwritten what I had in slot 4. This sort of issue isn’t great.


    I think someone from kemper needs to spend some time creating and saving performances and looking carefully at what happens because the software is finicky and glitchy. I like what it can do in theory, but not the bugs.

  • I have read above the terms «erratic behaviour»: I do not see how to better describe the functioning of RM when trying to create performances by using it: sometimes it works...sometimes not! The topic has already been mentioned several times previously in the forum (the conclusion of some members being that they never used RM but directly the Kemper, in desperation!!!!) And I don’t feel it’s been taken seriously by the Kemper team so far. Will that be the case now? No idea, but in any case, this discussion takes a rather surreal side after having seen the functioning of the Quad Cortex (at the demo stage obviously).

  • I asked for help from the kemper support team. I sent them files, probably they assume that comes from my setup, let's give them a chance, I let you know ...

    I might have found out how to cancel an accidental change of Rig in performance mode. Switching off/on the profiler or RM is no use. By selecting another performance we're asked (or not ??) to save/discard the change. But while I was doing the test, I realized the header and the name of the rig was different ...or not!! Definitely not stable.

  • Kemper has been asleep at the wheel on Rig Manager for far too long. They need to shake up whatever group is responsible for RM or add better engineers to fix it. The whole application is a fucking mess and reminds me of Line6 level workmanship. Come on Kemper, your hardware is top notch and expensive. You need to back it up with top notch software.

  • Kemper has been asleep at the wheel on Rig Manager for far too long. They need to shake up whatever group is responsible for RM or add better engineers to fix it. The whole application is a fucking mess ...

    As Rush puts it... "quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand."


    I'd go ahead and say that at this point, at least 80% of problems users come across with RM are because of an improper workflow (not saving, screwing up their performance by loading random slots, accidentally using the lock function, etc). This workflow might be counter intuitive to some (it used to be much worse pre-editor days) but there is definitely a logic and a workflow to follow to have stability. This program has come such a long way and combined with the editor and all the features like drag-and-drop (none of this existed 2 years ago), this system now checks all the boxes. There has been 4 or 5 updates of RM these last few weeks so I wouldn't call that "asleep at the wheel".

  • There's no quick to anything here Jed. I've been using Kemper for around 5 years. RM has always had problems. If it makes you feel better about yourself to look the other way and quote Rush and blame me, go for it buddy. Yeah the program has come a long way, but it still has a lot of problems.


    RM still needs a lot of work and the various updates haven't fixed some bugs that are years old at this point. Maybe you have the time, but I'm too busy making music to fuck around with RM every time it wants to misbehave. Hugs.

  • RM screwed up one of my performances just yesterday using latest version. I successfully used the same worflow to fill in first four slots. When I tried to insert fill in 5th slot, fourth slot contained what what fifth should, fifth slot had what fourth now had (both slots ended up containing the same rig), but fifth slot ended up being called... Crunch out of blue. Performance management is still broken as far as I am concerned and I have all patience in the world and ocean of good. I used various products in the past, both cheaper and more expensive, but performance management in RM is by far the least trustworthy feature and you can't just say it is a user error. User does same thing over and over getting random results and losing work.

  • RM screwed up one of my performances just yesterday using latest version. I successfully used the same worflow to fill in first four slots. When I tried to insert fill in 5th slot, fourth slot contained what what fifth should, fifth slot had what fourth now had (both slots ended up containing the same rig), but fifth slot ended up being called... Crunch out of blue. Performance management is still broken as far as I am concerned and I have all patience in the world and ocean of good. I used various products in the past, both cheaper and more expensive, but performance management in RM is by far the least trustworthy feature and you can't just say it is a user error. User does same thing over and over getting random results and losing work.

    are you double clicking to load the performance into the edit buffer or just creating a new performance then starting to edit? I had lots of issues with totally screwed up performances. Support said they couldn’t recreate the fault so I sent them a video to show I wasn’t making it up. They politely pointed out that it as user error.


    my workflow was:


    Right click to create new performance.


    The newly created performance was highlighted dark green. I assumed it was ready to start working on. However, UNLESS you double click on the new performance to load it and turn the highlight orange you aren’t actually in edit mode. In this situation you are actually making changes to the last selected performance.

    Hit save. The changes I had made were actually saved to the previously selected performance NOT the new performance. Therefore, I got one screwed up performance (the old one) and one performance with just the Default Crunch rig (which is expected behaviour as RM didn’t know that I wanted to edit the new performance).


    I totally agree this is a weid form of logic and a totally unintuitive workflow. I would naturally assume (as I expect other do) that creating a new performance automatically loads it into the edit buffer ready to start editing but it doesn’t. Once I learned about the need for that all improve extra Double Click everything worked fine and has continued to do so ever since.

  • I did load the performance. The workflow I used was: load empty performance into KPA, then open second window of RM, drag and drop rigs from second window into slots open in first window - saving after each operation. I might have switched slots on device itself to audition previously added slots. Worked great until it stopped and "Crunch" slot appeared and what was supposed to be in slot #5 ended up in slots #4 and #5 with slot #5 renamed to Crunch. As far as I know I had only this one performance loaded. As a user I expect that when I drag and drop rig into slot #5 of performance #23 it will end up in slot #5 of performance #23 and only there (whether is it loaded or not should not matter - it is possible to execute such action from UI, so it should behave as expected). And if RM detects that I'm dragging a rig into slot #5 of performance #23 but in edit buffer it has something else it should warn me, saying: "hey, looks like you are dragging a rig into slot which is not part of loaded performance - this will possibly damage your previous work". But I suspect my case is different anyway - I had single performance loaded all the time. This whole process is too error prone and fragile.

  • but was the performance you were editing actually highlighted orange and showing on the KPA screen as LIB? If not, ot doesn’t matter what we expect to happen it still isn’t going to work.


    I agree that the workflow isn’t intuitive but I have found it pretty robust as long as I do it correctly.

  • I created a video showing the issue, and as a user I really don't think I did anything wrong (just dragged rig into slot and hit save) and that I should understand more about inner workings of KPA to get this right.


    https://www.icloud.com/icloudd…2moDZT54CiQ#KemperPerfBug


    Needless to say my RM shows now this (after reloading performance by switching to different one and back):



    And device itself this:



    They are out of sync. Every single time I try to use this feature (which I always do after RM is updated in hope that maybe this time it will work) I fall into this or similar issues.

  • I’m not at my KPA just now to try your way. The only difference between your process and mine is that I creat my performances in RM Local Library folder rather than the MyProfiler folder. I’ll try a new performance in MyProfiler when I get a chance.


    Is your KPA in Performance mode and Does the screen show LIB when you are making the performance?

  • I think that Kemper should invite some guitar players ober that know the Kemper but are no Kemper professionals and film them trying to use RM with the editor.


    I think the programmers at Kemper are too involved with RM to see how and where a lot of people struggle as for them its pretty logical as they spend so much time with it.

    But ALL of my friends who own the Kemper struggle with using RM and performances.

  • The only difference between your process and mine is that I creat my performances in RM Local Library folder rather than the MyProfiler folder.

    yeah, this is huge difference. The issue is that RM and KPA get out of sync easily when you are building a performance using RM with KPA in performance mode (my case). My process is very incremental - I build my performances slowly, often listening to what I just added to hear if new slot plays well with the rest. Doing so from RM always leads to issues, which is super frustrating. If a workflow is allowed from UI it should be predictible.