What is needed to add wireless to legacy Toasters/Racks for wireless app

  • Hi there,


    I would like to start a thread that is limited to *only* what hardware has been found to work or should work to allow wireless to be added to our legacy devices.


    I did a video with an explanation...




    If you don't want to read the whole thread here are some devices that work:


    Vogels/Vonet wifi access point Amazon UK - https://amzn.to/3dmKNFU

    Amazon US - https://amzn.to/36aq04t


    TP-Link Switch with Power

    Amazon UK - https://amzn.to/36aqpnv

    Amazon US - https://amzn.to/3h1QuLI


    Power adapter to use one cable for kemper and router

    Amazon UK - https://amzn.to/3qsyTj4



    The manual is not 100% clear so I will try to summarise my findings so far and what I have seen on this forum. I will also attempt to make it as simple as possible for those of us who are not that technically minded.


    The Kemper needs to be connected to a device called a 'router' which is wifi enabled. This wifi router also needs to be able to function as an 'access point' if you want to run it stand-alone (at a gig) without another network (e.g. your home wifi network). As the manual says, this router needs to be connected via the ethernet socket on the back of the kemper. (easily bought on amazon, but see below)


    The remote also needs to be connected to that socket so you have to connect the wire from the remote to a socket on the router. However, (and this is important), the remote needs to be powered. It receives its power from the kemper through the ethernet socket normally so you have to find a way to add power to the cable that goes to the remote. This can be done via a POE (power over ethernet) injector (easily bought on amazon).


    So, if you do it like this you will have 2 boxes (one router and one poe injector) which both need a power supply plugged in somewhere. You will then need a short cable to go from kemper to router, then another cable from router to poe injector and then a long cable from poe injector to the remote.


    If you are like me then you will want to reduce the number of cables and power supplies that you have to lug around and this is where it gets interesting.


    There are such things as routers that are powered by POE, so that has the potential to lose one power supply (because the router doesn't need a power supply if it's powered from the kemper from the ethernet cable). Many of these routers are designed for home networking where things are wired into small spaces so they are probably small enough to go in the back of the kemper.


    There are also routers which will do POE 'pass through'. In other words it will take the power coming in from the kemper and then pass it on to the cable going out to the remote. The first issue is that the router needs 2 ethernet sockets. Many small wifi routers powered by POE do not, but a small number do.


    However, then we get into the issues of how much power and how is it delivered. In this case, there are multiple standards of how this is done (802.3af, etc.) and I have not seen confirmation from kemper on what standard we need to follow (it says 'mode a' in the manual, but this is not quite enough information I believe). Supported are IEEE standard 802.3af-2003 as well as 802.3at-2009 mode A. There is also a lack of documentation from router companies about the detail of what they need coming and out of their power supplies.


    In a perfect world, we could find a device which will be powered over POE and will pass-through POE to the remote. If this was the case, then legacy owners could buy one box, with no power supply and tuck it into the back of the kemper and have it all in one with no additional power supplies etc.


    So coming back to the point of this thread. Please post the products (preferably with a web link) that you have found that we can try or research to be able to achieve this goal. I will shortly add some that I have found. Please don't clutter up the thread with comments such as 'I'm confused' or 'why not android' etc. those comments can go in plenty of other threads.

  • as it turns out it is not possible to power a router from the ethernet port of the Profiler because we are not supporting the PoE protocol at the ethernet port of the Profiler. You need a Poe switch to accomplish a setup that involves a Profiler, a Remote and a router.

  • as it turns out it is not possible to power a router from the ethernet port of the Profiler because we are not supporting the PoE protocol at the ethernet port of the Profiler. You need a Poe switch to accomplish a setup that involves a Profiler, a Remote and a router.

    But - if you powered the unit Allenhuish references with its own DC supply, that should work, shouldn't it?

    (The amount of future-proofing in the original KPA is simply ridiculous. A 10+ year old electronic device shouldn't be able to do this without significant modifications. Bravo, guys.)

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • as it turns out it is not possible to power a router from the ethernet port of the Profiler because we are not supporting the PoE protocol at the ethernet port of the Profiler. You need a Poe switch to accomplish a setup that involves a Profiler, a Remote and a router.

    Thank you very much for your comment, but it is still not 100% clear. The remote is powered by POE that is coming from the ethernet port of the profiler (your documentation implies that), but you say that PoE is not supported by the kemper.


    I think you are saying that you don't 'support' it. In other words, it works, but you will not be responsible for anything that may or may not go wrong. Is that right?


    Can you please say exactly what type of PoE that the remote requires. You have already stated Mode A which gives us the wires which are used. Can you also please state the voltage requirements and if any 802.3 type requirements exist. This information would then help identify the routers which can be used.


    If I can work all this out I will be publishing a youtube video with detailed instructions to help the community.


    Thanks, Allen

  • I just ordered a TP-Link TL-WR902AC. Will arrive on Wednesday hopefully and then I can tell a little bit about it, if anyone is interested.
    in theory it should be possible to use it as a wifi-bridge in my home Network and as a standalone Router on Stage.


    Does anyone know how the specs of the USB-Ports of the profiler look like? Standard 0,5A/5V?

  • I know this may seem really lame, but why couldn't we just put a USB WiFi dongle in the back of the toaster?


    TP Link Dongle

    I coukd be totally wrong, but I think the issue would be drivers for the dongle. If I'm right I doubt kemper have any means to put the right driver on the kemper so it wouldn't know what to do with the device.


    Then there are different drivers for different dongles etc.

  • I just ordered a TP-Link TL-WR902AC. Will arrive on Wednesday hopefully and then I can tell a little bit about it, if anyone is interested.
    in theory it should be possible to use it as a wifi-bridge in my home Network and as a standalone Router on Stage.


    Does anyone know how the specs of the USB-Ports of the profiler look like? Standard 0,5A/5V?

    Interesting to hear how you get on.


    Previous threads on charging of mobile phones on this forum have been answered by kemper saying that it is not recommended to power anything from the usb port on the kemper. Which is a shame in this situation.


    If you don't have a remote then a solution like the tp-link makes sense.

  • the devil is in the details. The Profiler does not send PoE but the Remote "can" be powered over PoE with a dedicated PoE injector. As soon as a PoE injector is detected the Remote will switch to a different internal power supply that supports the PoE protocol. If no PoE injector is detected the Remote will use the power supply that responds to the protocol that the Profiler is using.

  • I think something like the wr902 should work for me as I just need ethernet to WiFi. I use an fcb1010 for control so don't need to worry about ethernet pass thru. I only wasn't to add ios control for rehearsals, I use the Pc editor at home.


    There's also a slighter cheaper wr802 that looks like it should fit the bill. It's not as good as the other, but looks like it will have all I need.

  • the devil is in the details. The Profiler does not send PoE but the Remote "can" be powered over PoE with a dedicated PoE injector. As soon as a PoE injector is detected the Remote will switch to a different internal power supply that supports the PoE protocol. If no PoE injector is detected the Remote will use the power supply that responds to the protocol that the Profiler is using.

    Provided this had it's own DC power supply, would this work?

    https://mikrotik.com/product/RBmAP2nD

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • the devil is in the details. The Profiler does not send PoE but the Remote "can" be powered over PoE with a dedicated PoE injector. As soon as a PoE injector is detected the Remote will switch to a different internal power supply that supports the PoE protocol. If no PoE injector is detected the Remote will use the power supply that responds to the protocol that the Profiler is using.

    Thank you very much for the clarification.


    Which standard of PoE does the remote use? 802.3af or 802.3at or passive? and what is the power requirement?


    Thank you