New Overwhelmed Kemper User

    Using the Thump is selling the KPA (and yourself) short. But if you don't want to invest in a high-end modeling rig, I can totally understand. It's an expensive leap of faith. I can tell you there was a world of difference between the KPA through my old K10 (which I believe gets better reviews than the Thump) and my CLR.

    Quote from facefirst

    Had it for almost a month. It's just not doing it for me. Sounds good on low volume and like ass at band volumes. After this long I should be able to have some decent sounds out of it at band volumes. When I plugged back into my Mesa Mark IV I realized that nothing replaces the sound and feel of a tube amp in a live setting. Everything is packed up and going back. Thanks Kemper. It was...interesting.


    Try your Mark IV through the Thump...and then try the Kemper Poweramp into the cabinet of your MK IV.

    Quote from facefirst

    Had it for almost a month. It's just not doing it for me. Sounds good on low volume and like ass at band volumes. After this long I should be able to have some decent sounds out of it at band volumes. When I plugged back into my Mesa Mark IV I realized that nothing replaces the sound and feel of a tube amp in a live setting. Everything is packed up and going back. Thanks Kemper. It was...interesting.


    Agree with the rest of the crowd on the Thump....not really the best choice.
    Nevertheless you need to tweak your rigs at gig volume, ain't gonna work otherwise. The other guitarist of my band did sold his $$$$ Mesa based rack (Triaxis, 2:95, G-major, Lexicon M400, Intellifex, 4x12) and got the Kemper.
    The main thing is that you're happy with what you have and keep making great music, if for you is the Mesa that's fine...but I would like to hear your impressions after putting the KPA through a good system.

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    Quote from facefirst

    Had it for almost a month. It's just not doing it for me. Sounds good on low volume and like ass at band volumes. After this long I should be able to have some decent sounds out of it at band volumes. When I plugged back into my Mesa Mark IV I realized that nothing replaces the sound and feel of a tube amp in a live setting. Everything is packed up and going back. Thanks Kemper. It was...interesting.


    I would have definetaly tried with a DXR10 or something similar that people on here are having success with before giving up

    Sell the Thump and get the Yahmaha DXR10 and you'll be blown away! You will be regretting selling the Kemper down the road without first trying better speaker. The Thump is just not the right speaker for the Kemper. The same could be said for someone who loves rap listening through earbuds instead of monitor headphones. Gotta have the right setup to truly get the big picture.

    I've tried my Kemper a couple of times at rehearsal now and I must say I find it hard to translate those fantastic tones I get at home to a high-volume setting.


    Running them through my two Alto ts112a's, there's an overwhelmingly boomy sub-bass on low palm mutes and on sustained clean chords that almost drowns out the rest. I mainly use Lasse Lammert's ChugChug rig.


    I've tried lifting my speakers off the floor or tilting them to a 'wedge' position, but to no avail. The 'contour' function on the Altos (which adds a bass and treble boost) is, of course, switched off. I've also tried running the Kemper through the PA system that's installed at our rehearsal space (I don't know which brand or model it is, but the speakers are mounted off the ground, on poles), and the boominess remains the same.


    It gets better if I dial the bass on the main out EQ down to about -4db, and I have no doubt that I'll be able to make it work (I love my Kemper so I'll just keep trying until I will), but I just wondered if I might have missed something, or if there are any other tricks I could try. The global EQ is kind of coarse and dialing the bass down removes some good frequencies as well; I could add a more precise, parametric EQ stomp to every rig with a bass cutoff at around 100hz (or just lock it), but that seems like an inelegant solution, wasting a stomp slot in every rig for what seems to be an overall, non-rig related problem. So, any tips?


    Related question: what is the best way to set the respective volumes on the Kemper and on the speakers? Kemper master volume low, speakers high, or vice versa?



    I use an EQ on more or less every single one of my main patches. Whether it be parametric, graphic or studio. And if your suffering from boominess this is what you need to do. I always use the X slot for my EQ's. Whack a Graphic EQ in there and pull out at 160hz and 80hz. Take them completely off so this should eliminate pretty much all of your boominess then bring them back up to taste until the 'boominess' is at the desired level. Don't be afraid to use the tools inside the Kemper dude that's what they're there for.

    Quote from Robrecht

    I've tried my Kemper a couple of times at rehearsal now and I must say I find it hard to translate those fantastic tones I get at home to a high-volume setting.


    Running them through my two Alto ts112a's


    You can't expect rigs tweaked at home at low volume via studio monitors to translate to full band volume through your Altos due to:

    • the Fletcher-Munson effect
    • physical feedback
    • the flatness (or lack thereof) of your Altos relative to whatever you use to monitor at home

    With the 1st 2 factors you just have to accept that your tweaking won't be done until you get to rehearsal and make the expected reductions in treble, bass, compression and gain. As for the 3rd factor, I think it's a mistake to cheap out on monitoring if you're going to commit to modeling. In fact, I would prefer a budget modeler and a CLR over a KPA and a budget monitor. YMMV.

    Thanks guys, that was some informative and sensible advice.


    I guess what I'd really like then is for the master EQ to become a parametric EQ rather than just the three bass, mid and treble knobs. That would allow me to apply very precise global tweaks for every individual monitoring solution I use (headphones, active speakers, or as a recorded track in a mix...). I would save them as output presets so I could easily switch between them (as I already do using the less precise 3 knob system).


    That way the rigs themselves can remain the same whether I'm at home or at rehearsal, with no effects slots required for correcting the quirks of a specific output device. Ideally, in my mind, everything that goes into a rig -- the stomps, stack and post effects, including EQs -- should go towards creating the 'inherent' or 'intended' sound of that rig, while ensuring that it sounds more or less the same across different listening situations should be implemented globally, outside of the rigs -- i.e., using the output EQ.


    But, anyway, I'm not complaining! I love my Kemper and tweaking the sound for my (admittedly low-budget) speakers is not a big deal.

    Quote from Robrecht

    what is the best way to set the respective volumes on the Kemper and on the speakers? Kemper master volume low, speakers high, or vice versa?


    As long as the acceptance of the cab poweramp's input is respected, a good trick is to always raise the volume of the less noisy unit. A device's intrinsic noise get amplified along with the overall volume, this way you'll have the best possible tones.


    :)

    If you're one of those guys who reckons your tube amp rig sounds so much better than your Kemper rig, then IMO, this is the way to run a Kemper if you don't have the Poweramp version.


    We plugged an old KPA Head into a Crown Class D poweramp into a stereo Marshall 2x12 (I'll take some proper pics today).
    Even the most anal of tube amp fanboys in the music store were blown away...and the volume was even too loud for their ears. :)


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    Quote from viabcroce


    As long as the acceptance of the cab poweramp's input is respected, a good trick is to always raise the volume of the less noisy unit. A device's intrinsic noise get amplified along with the overall volume, this way you'll have the best possible tones.


    :)


    Thanks, that's more or less the conclusion I reached after some experimentation at rehearsal yesterday.


    With the main output EQ bass at -3db, I was able to reduce the boominess to very acceptable levels and achieve a great sound. One of the things I'm learning is that the Kemper is quite sensitive and sounds better if I don't dig into the strings quite like I used to, which is a relief -- hard picking in general isn't good for accuracy and intonation anyway.

    Quote from Guitartone

    If you're one of those guys who reckons your tube amp rig sounds so much better than your Kemper rig, then IMO, this is the way to run a Kemper if you don't have the Poweramp version.


    We plugged an old KPA Head into a Crown Class D poweramp into a stereo Marshall 2x12 (I'll take some proper pics today).
    Even the most anal of tube amp fanboys in the music store were blown away...and the volume was even too loud for their ears. :)

    Very Interesting! Could you tell us how many watts the Crown in the photo is putting out at 8 ohms and what the 2 12 inch speakers are rated at in the Cab? Searching everywhere but can't find a reliable giude for how many class D watts can one safely throw at a guitar speaker. I know for a tube amp the cab total should be twice the RMS of the Tube Head.


    I have a 8 ohm 100 watt rated Scumback in a 1 x 12 box, so I am wondering if the low-end Crown DriveCore Series (which is 215 watts x 2 at 8 ohm) is going to be a risk for blowing that speaker?

    When it comes to solid state amps your better off getting more than trying to match your speakers (you have a volume knob on the amp for matching) Not only does it leave you with headroom for more speaker arrangements but you are going to sound better and not clip if the volume is not cranked. Just a note though, overkill is no good either. You still want a usable volume knob.

    Generally speaking, the wattage a poweramp outputs in normal use is surprisingly low if compared to the declared wattage.
    A 100 W combo played at a high volume doesn't usually output more than 5-10 watt


    Among other things, in order to get 100 W from a 100 W poweramp you don't have to maximize the output (and all the tone controls & switches!) only, but the input as well. Not necessarily a guitar (even when intensively strummed) can do that. IOW, in most cases an amp doesn't output its maximum nominal power even when all its knobs are maxed out.


    Besides that, the sound pressure you hear in the room depends on the loudspeaker(s)' sensitivity, when this value is high enough many chances are you'll feel the need to lower the amp volume to a comfort zone long before the power section outputs its nominal power.


    As an example, my Dragoon 280C8C cab wears two Celestion Century neodymium (102 dB efficiency), which exhibit 80 W nominal power each. The suggested maximum poweramp output is 200 W. But rest assured this suggestion is by far conservative.
    Anyway, 102 dB is very high, and I'd certainly want to lower the volume before the amp reaches 200 W :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:


    Summing up, using a single channel of your amp won't certainly damage your cab if the volume knob is in its first half :)


    HTH

    Quote from MooseHat

    Very Interesting! Could you tell us how many watts the Crown in the photo is putting out at 8 ohms and what the 2 12 inch speakers are rated at in the Cab? Searching everywhere but can't find a reliable giude for how many class D watts can one safely throw at a guitar speaker. I know for a tube amp the cab total should be twice the RMS of the Tube Head.


    I have a 8 ohm 100 watt rated Scumback in a 1 x 12 box, so I am wondering if the low-end Crown DriveCore Series (which is 215 watts x 2 at 8 ohm) is going to be a risk for blowing that speaker?


    The Crown is 1000 watts per channel, 375 watts per channel at 8 ohm.
    The Cabinet is a 1936 2x12 stereo with G12 - T75 speakers.
    Not sure how loud you have to play before blowing the speakers, but the volume was ridiculously loud.


    Here's the setup.


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    to all the guys setting their tones up in X setting but wanting them to sound good in Y setting with minimal hassle, I can think of two solutions. The cheapest and simplest solution is to buy a $50 graphic EQ stomp pedal and put this in the Kemper's loop, which you assign to your "X" slot. Then you can toggle the loop in the KPA or step on the pedal depending on the scenario. Or get a fancier stereo EQ you can put post-Kemper that has a bypass so you can toggle it on/off for the given situation. The other solution is to make 2 copies of all your rigs - one for X setting and one for Y, with different EQ settings using one of the more advanced EQ effects (Studio or Graphic).


    You could also lock down the cab section and change it's parameters (or even find a less boomy cab for live use). The whole concept of having an arsenal of amp/cab combinations for live use is a very new thing and not really practical anyway.


    You have to appreciate the global EQ's on the different outputs, even if they aren't powerful. At least they match most mixing boards. Better than the Pod which has no global EQ.