How do Behringer make the FCB for $150.00?

    Quote

    "LOL I hear ya. It's a shortsighted, destructive philosophy.


    Gene Simmons summed it up nicely in this interview, where he revealed that it was the FANS that killed the record industry.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZS-znRmf…etailpage#t=100 "


    You are forgetting about the media. They are the ones telling the youth what is cool since, apparently they are having troubles deciding on their own.


    What the media is selling:


    [Youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pco91kroVgQ[/Youtube]


    What a lot of musicians and artists see:


    [Youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?…l&list=PL4722096DA7FECEFD[/Youtube]

    Edited 2 times, last by K3MP3R ().

    Wow funny thread.


    #1 - Companies are free to charge whatever they want. It's on the consumer to decide whether or not the price is acceptable. Many factors go into the decision whether a price is fair, and it is a personal decision. The idea that someone is ripping people off because they take a vacation is absolutely ludicrous.


    #2 - Characterizations of an entire country of people are ridiculous. Do people really believe China as a whole all share the same value system and beliefs? If you really want to look at the "Chinese problem" from the global scale, they represent the end game of an absolute free market system in what little regulation there is is largely ignored. The catch is the factories are extremely competitive for foreign contracts so quality is relatively high. However, they are limited by the cost per unit set by the foreign companies. When your cheap electronics break don't blame "China", blame the company who designed and speced the unit to hit a low price point. Blame yourself for placing the absolute highest priority on price rather than quality.

    The scary thing about "Communist" China is that there's a creamy layer of society that's making a margin on companies' "labour savings".


    You read stories about some General's son crashing an expensive sports car and dying completely nude inside with some girls next to him, or some other General's kid that's accused of gangrape of some waitress and you got to wonder what those "upstanding" politburo members taught their children. And where they're getting their funding from.


    And if you read about how Foxconn and companies like it charge rent from their labourers for staying in company-owned hostels, while also setting up canteens and monopolising other services in that area, and you realise that those people cobbling together $600 phones are not making enough to send to their parents in rural China. But they need the job because they're either forced into it, or they have to feed themselves.


    I'm not too sure about Behringer's practices, but as far as I know, price point is no way to determine labour practices at a factory. People traditionally used China to manufacture cheap goods that could flood the market. The dynamics have now changed, because the Chinese rulers have realised that ISO certification is not that big a deal and their cut gets bigger.

    I'm not sure if we are still talking about behrninger or just ranting on Chinese labour, but behringer actually set up their own manufacturing plants called music corp that have pretty good working conditions.


    We've done to our products what we've done to our food. People subsidize processed and sugary sweet food by buying it cus its quick and tastes good. Now it is expensive and hard to get healthy food at price levels of garbage food.


    Same with products. If everyone buys products with farmed out labor, other companies may have to farm out their labor to be able to compete.


    The only way to stop the trend is if enough people vote with their wallets and then the people who make garbage food and farm out labor will start making the products people support.



    Sounds easy, but a lot of people don't buy on ethics, they buy on frugal budgets and impulses for attractive and trendy products and not the stories behind their manufacturing.


    Quality can be subjective because some people just want a product that works for the cheapest price possible. Other people are all about brand loyalty while a lot are just thinking about best bang for Buck.


    There are a lot of products I would not skimp on just knowing how they are made and what makes then worth while for quality and durability. At the same time I have a couple Chinese and Korean guitars I would not trade for any expensive brand name guitar I've tried. Sometimes you just find gems or a good company. Anyone can make a good product if they wanted and any reputable company can make a shitty one. Its not even reasonable to label or group people or a product into some category based on random crap we hear or read on the internet.


    People often like to focus on the people in the worst conditions in China to characterize the state of everyone in China, and that's absolutely not the case. Are there exploited workers in China? Absolutely. Are there exploited workers in every country in the world? Absolutely. I think every country in the world has gone though the growing pains of unregulated industry and worker rights (in America, the Industrial Revolution). According to recent articles, approximately 300 million Chinese are considered "middle class" (about 25% of total pop, 50% of urban populations). China is the largest consumer market of flat screen TVs and laptop computers in the world and second in digital cameras behind America. Of course, one could argue due to having more people of course they would be purchasing more. But the point is that there is a market with people who have the money to spend on discretionary items such as these. I'm not Chinese (my blood line technically flows to the indigenous people of Taiwan though my father, and to Germany and England from my mother), but it's very obvious that in America (and likely in much of Europe) China is characterized as an enemy for convenience to simplify the the real issues with globalization and building consumer based economies.


    Last post in this thread, don't want to go too far down the political path...


    People have voted with their wallets and price is factor for which the majority feel is the highest priority. This is partly due to the super-consumer nature of the western world ("I gotta have more stuff!") but also the amount of discretionary spending one can afford ("I'd love that Gibson Les Paul, but I've got a family of 4 to feed on a single income"). The cheap Chinese labor market is tapped out. Soon, the cheap labor will move to Africa the biggest untapped labor market left in the world. But, before then we may simply see a rise of alternate"just in time" business models using highly automated machines like 3D printers and/or Fab Labs which will not only in-source "manufacturing" but bring it to a degree of locality not known since prior to the industrial revolution. No shipping, no inventory. Place an order with the "general store" and they fulfill it on the spot. Every retail store becomes it's own factory. But I'm drifting way, way off topic...

    Quote from Will_Chen


    People often like to focus on the people in the worst conditions in China to characterize the state of everyone in China, and that's absolutely not the case. Are there exploited workers in China? Absolutely. Are there exploited workers in every country in the world? Absolutely. I think every country in the world has gone though the growing pains of unregulated industry and worker rights (in America, the Industrial Revolution). According to recent articles, approximately 300 million Chinese are considered "middle class" (about 25% of total pop, 50% of urban populations). China is the largest consumer market of flat screen TVs and laptop computers in the world and second in digital cameras behind America. Of course, one could argue due to having more people of course they would be purchasing more. But the point is that there is a market with people who have the money to spend on discretionary items such as these. I'm not Chinese (my blood line technically flows to the indigenous people of Taiwan though my father, and to Germany and England from my mother), but it's very obvious that in America (and likely in much of Europe) China is characterized as an enemy for convenience to simplify the the real issues with globalization and building consumer based economies.



    Will_Chen, if 300 million are middle class in a country with a population of 1.3 billion, that's not even 25 per cent of the population. That's exactly the point I was trying to make about Communism, not Chinese manufacturing standards. As I said, they are catching on quickly to the old saying that Chinese goods are not well manufactured and are embracing world-class ISO procedures and standards to make sure they can compete with global companies for everything from oil projects to toy manufacturing contracts.


    But the large scale exploitation that's gone on for decades cannot and should not be brushed under the carpet. The leaders and their cronies have made billions by hoodwinking the people. The country has foreign exchange reserves of 30 trillion dollars. That could be seen as progress. But as per your own statistics, you can see the middle class is just a small segment of the population. The majority remain poor and uneducated years after Mao Zedong promised to take the people along in the country's pursuit of greatness. Except only a few reached the destination ahead of everyone else and there doesn't seem to be any political will or plan to take the rest along for the ride for another century, if ever.


    Of course, as you said, labour exploitation is not unheard of in other countries. Glad to hear good things about Behringer''s manufacturing plant, K3MP3R.

    Wow, guys - that has become an ever more interesting thread and as always: two, no seven sides to every story. :thumbup:


    Okay, back to topic of the OP: Let's say Behringer produces the same FCB we all like so much the same way he does, BUT


    • looks for a top notch designer and makes the design of the product oh so very hip, almost as good as apple does :D , got it?
    • starts a campaign with lots of clips, floods the networks with a photoshopped "lady gagga uses behringer" and ...
    • finds the million dollars for endorsing richie kotzen or even better evh AND one of those up and coming young players, let's say keith merrow


    i betcha that at least some

    • reviewers that cried "cheap product made in china" when they know it comes from behringer
    • will write "top quality, top product" for the same product when it comes under the name of "pink pineapple"
    • and "the price of 599.- dollars is absolutely correct, you get value for money here!"


    while all is true what you said i will never again pay for the marketing strategy of a company. and btw for me it is: the behringer or none, because i could not afford sth else.
    my 2 cents.

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    Edited 2 times, last by Geraldo7 ().

    Quote from Sportsfreund


    Good point, let me add to that, that I will never again pay for the one week+ long vacations of a company owner!


    If either of you buy any products at all from almost any manufacturer on Earth you are absolutely paying for marketing and vacations for every employee of that company and there's zero you can do about it. Anyone who owns a private company can shut operations down any time they want for as long as they want. You are paying for a product. Period. Either it meets your needs at an acceptable price point or not. As a consumer, you have absolutely zero insight into what employee's of most company's make nor how they treat profit nor any right to dictate how the owner of a company lives their lives.


    Dang it! got sucked back in...

    Quote from Guitartone

    What I meant to say was...wow, the Chinese sure make a great quality foot controller for $150.00.


    Well done Behringer and well done China.


    Agreed! But is it the best foot controller for the Kemper Profiler? 8o


    I think something with NRPN will give you forward compatibility when more controllable features are unlocked in the Kemper. One reason I'm waiting eagerly for them to come out with their foot controller (oh wait, I'm still waiting eagerly for my Kemper ;( )


    Wouldn't it be cool if Kemper ties up with Behringer to make the foot controller? That would be an epic win! :thumbup:

    Quote from Will_Chen

    If either of you buy any products at all from almost any manufacturer on Earth you are absolutely paying for marketing and vacations for every employee of that company and there's zero you can do about it. Anyone who owns a private company can shut operations down any time they want for as long as they want. You are paying for a product. Period. Either it meets your needs at an acceptable price point or not. As a consumer, you have absolutely zero insight into what employee's of most company's make nor how they treat profit nor any right to dictate how the owner of a company lives their lives.


    Dang it! got sucked back in...

    Hey wait a minute, i personally have nothing to do with this. is it a kind of running gag somehow here anyway? no, i say it loud, i do not have a problem what a manufacturer does with his live and i am happy when he can afford even two weeks of vacation, even in a 5* hotel on the maledives. that was not MY point. my point is: i will not support and buy products that are built cheap with workers under bad conditions and marketed globally with a maximum profit span by advertising the whole planet. period. this is what i can do and this what i am going to do. now can you guess of which company i think of? yes, it is an obvious choice. i do not want to have any control of the managers of ANY company on this blue planet. but if more people were aware of the problem of producing in china, they would probably not buy masses of cheaply produced products for hilarious prices. what behringer does - ah, back to start - seems to me a good compromise, but who am i to judge? and the only control i got - what you have stated correctly - is over my money purse. cheers. got sucked back in, too ...

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    ah, i forgot: the behringer with the uno chip is such a good solution that - AFAIK - the kemper made foot controller is suspended or will never come ...
    am i right or am i right or am i wrong?

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    Quote from Geraldo7

    ah, i forgot: the behringer with the uno chip is such a good solution that - AFAIK - the kemper made foot controller is suspended or will never come ...
    am i right or am i right or am i wrong?


    I have wondered the same thing. The Uno4Kemper chip makes the FCB1010 a pretty amazing KPA controller, and the price point is stunning. I'm not sure there would be much of a market for a Kemper-built footcontroller.

    PRS Singlecuts
    Kemper PowerHead/Remote



    Quote from skoczy

    When you turn the knob on KPA, you wake up the captured souls of tube amps living inside.

    I'm glad team Kemper worked with Uno for a foot switch myself. There is still a market and need for a dedicated one, but now hopefully it won't be rushed as there is a good alternative for those in need until the other is released.

    The only difficult thing is choosing what stomps you want switch 6/7/8/9 to control, assuming 10 is your Tap/Tempo.


    It would have been nice to be able to assign 1/2/3/4/5 to do whatever you want instead of only the option of scrolling through 5 'Rigs'.
    I find most gigging players don't need 5 rigs per song, in fact most only need 5 rigs or less for the entire gig.

    Quote from Guitartone

    The only difficult thing is choosing what stomps you want switch 6/7/8/9 to control, assuming 10 is your Tap/Tempo.


    It would have been nice to be able to assign 1/2/3/4/5 to do whatever you want instead of only the option of scrolling through 5 'Rigs'.
    I find most gigging players don't need 5 rigs per song, in fact most only need 5 rigs or less for the entire gig.


    I think I've mentioned this before, but you can have any pedal send any command. Even in stomp mode, the pedal set normally for PC changes can instead be set to only send CC changes. In fact, you could set up the the FCB1010 for 10 stomp mode. It's just the synching of LEDs which would be off...