Monitor output broken? could really use help on this one

    I am using the profiler alot for recording, but what i'm trying to do now is using it to run a recorded song through a pair of CAPI preamps. I am doing some form of mastering (some form, since i am not a mastering engineer, just doing my best). I have a stereo loop in the mod slot, with output on monitor out set to mod left, output on direct out set to mod right. from the into a preamp, from preamp back into the kemper. The problem only started on one of the preamps. If i only change the output from direct out to monitor out, the problems there, if i change back, its gone. So it is not the cables, et cetera.


    The problem is that i get no signal. When i turn the volume up (either on the preamp or the volume knob on the kemper, which is post-fx) the output goes full red, and i get wierd glitch noises. soundclip provided below. The noise starts at different levels. If i turn the gain up fast, the noise begins, even if it not so loud. and if it starts at for example -20 db, i would have to lower the volume far down, to like -40 before it stops. If not for this, i would have thought it was a feedback loop, even though i have no idea how i would have created one.


    i send the audio from the computer via spdif into the kemper. When there is a cable in the monitor out, it happens, even when input is front input instead of spdif. If cable is out, there is nothing.



    audio: https://soundcloud.com/jesperb…r-troubleshooting/s-g3ct0


    I would really appreciate help, i'm at my wits end.

    Quote from Ingolf

    What I mean is this: When you have a stereo loop in the mod slot, where do send and return go? A loop expects a signal to be sent and returned.

    i do use a complete loop.


    the chain is
    monitor out + direct out
    goes into the preamps, and out from there
    return input + alternative input.

    Quote from Ingolf

    This is a broken signal chain. You need to go from send into the preamp.

    In what way? i do get signal through the whole chain when i use the direct output. with the monitor output set to put out the same signal as direct out (so if the loop is complete with direct out, it should be with monitor output) i get signal with direct out, not with monitor out.

    Quote from Ingolf

    Try the send. Tell me what you hear.

    I have tried the send, multiple times. Through the send i hear the signal i am sending from the computer, although a little coloured by the preamps (like planned).

    Jesper, here's what Ingolf is saying:


    When you insert a stereo loop in the Mod X slot, what the Kemper understands is that at this point, the signal will be sent through the send. But it's also expecting to have the signal come back at the return, from which point the signal goes back through the Kemper again.


    In your case, the signal is broken. There has to be a signal chain, i.e. Kemper direct out ---> Outboard device ----> Kemper return input


    These two connections are linked (ie. direct out and return input) as a stereo loop. You cannot short-circuit the chain and hope to hear sound. Even if you turn off the outboard device and leave the Kemper on, the signal is going to get screwed as a result of the detour through the loop


    Try things this way. Connect the Kemper direct out to the input of the preamp. Connect output of preamp to return of Kemper. You won't need the second preamp and the stereo signal output from the main outs/SPDIF will be coloured by the preamp.


    If you absolutely must use both preamps, the only option is to run from left/right mains of the Kemper into each preamp and then route the effected signal into your DAW.

    Quote from nightlight

    Try things this way. Connect the Kemper direct out to the input of the preamp. Connect output of preamp to return of Kemper. You won't need the second preamp and the stereo signal output from the main outs/SPDIF will be coloured by the preamp.


    If you absolutely must use both preamps, the only option is to run from left/right mains of the Kemper into each preamp and then route the effected signal into your DAW.

    That won't work. I will be sending a mono signal from the direct out, through a mono preamp. That'll not be stereo.


    Heres a qoute from mod 01000100:
    "thanks to the new assignable output sources you can also add stereo modulation in 'X' slot,


    set 'Monitor Output' to 'Mod left' and 'Direct Output' to 'Mod right',


    insert the stereo loop in the 'Mod' slot and bingo - stereo modulation and a stereo fx loop for you delays and reverbs."


    That is what i'm trying to do, and i have done it before. And it didn't work perfectly then either, although better. The stereo signal was "split". I had nothing left in the middle, everything was moved to the sides of the stereo spectrum. But i did get signal through both paths.



    I don't see why you would think i broke the loop. I have one signal:
    send->preamp-> return
    and one signal:
    monitor out->preamp-> alternate return.

    Edited once, last by Jesper ().

    Quote from viabcroce

    If you have both parts of the stereo signal from both paths but everything is displaced by one side, it's a matter of level (much higher by that side) :|

    Yes, but that is not the problem.


    That part from my last post is not what my problem is now (and displacement was not the problem then either). I now get no signal at all through the monitor output. I described it more in detail in my previous (especially the thread start) posts.

    I contacted support, and it seems this whole ordeal was an exercise in futility.


    Thanks for the help anyways.

    Quote from viabcroce

    What are the conclusion, if you feel like sharing?

    Well, basically, the output from the kemper into the loop is always mono. What the post i refered to earlier from 01000100 was trying to say, I still haven't figured out.


    Because this makes it impossible to do what i was trying to do, i stopped asking there. I don't know where i created a feedback loop or where it went wrong in some other way.


    I don't think you can have more than one loop active on the Kemper, that's probably why you're not getting any sound. Changing the output settings to Mod Left and Mod Right will result in the modulated signal being routed to both outputs. But you can't feed that signal back in for each separate preamp.


    As far as running a single preamp in the loop, the purpose would be to fatten up the mono signal, that would later be converted into stereo as it moves through the KPA signal chain. i don't think there will be any difference with respect to the results you expect to see by running two preamps in two loops (which is not possible, afaik).


    The best option for you would be to run your main outputs through the preamps separately and directly route them into your DAW. Probably do away with reverbs and delays so that only your tone is coloured, then add those back in later.

    So many posts and no clear solution or explaination? :)


    The manual states that the direct out is the (only) send even for the stereo loop.
    Any time a loop becomes active, the direct out will switch from its selected output source to the correct loop send signal.


    The monitor output does not do that. If you set it to MOD output it will output the signal of the MOD effect.
    If you establish an effects loop in the X or MOD slot, the monitor output will tap the output of the effects loop, not the input. This will create a feedback loop.
    You could have tried to set the output source to 'stack' for avoiding that, but it's not a perfect solution either.


    Anyway, I cannot see a sense in putting capi preamps into the effects loop. Why don't you connect them to the Profilers main outputs?