KPA last night with Power amp... Not impressed !

I'm surprised by your result. I run mine into an Electro Harmonix 22 Caliber and then to my Bogner 4x12 Uberkab and its sounds great. I would definitely try another amp.

Hey Tony,

A number of things to check here.

First of all, it's not necessarily your amp. It might be the combination of amp and cab, or your cab itself.
And yes, the Profiler sounds great live, as many, many pros have shown.

I'd also try with cabs on, I've had a number of good surprises with that

Another thing to try is the same rig at lower levels and alone.

Are you sure you were not clipping the amp?

Let un know

I have to agree with you. I haven't been that impressed with my kemper running into a Mesa strategy 500 amp into a vintage 30 4x12 cab.
Running any preamp into that amp usually sounds awesome.
Running the Kemper via Spdif into my recording setup sounds incredible.

Well, what the Profiler outputs to a power amp is not a "pre" kind of sound, even tho it's a "pre-level" signal. You have the profiled pre, the profiled power section, one or more mics if any, and some mic pres in case.
Not necessarily this sound good through any power amp + cab, it depends on how the respective sound signatures sum and interact with each other.
For example, if a specific profile's character corresponds to the power amp one's (say a peak around 1500 Hz) you'll get double the peak as a final result, not even considering the cab.
Possibly, the best results come when a specific profile, power amp and cab combination creates a more homogeneous result. Personally, I doubt that a dark profile + a dark power amp + a dark cab can sound anything but very very dark

^In which case, an EQ should be able to fix that - but that hasn't been my experience.

Another disapointee here. Never got anything really brilliant from the Kemper through a guitar setup, especially at high volumes.
It can be done if you're selecting your rigs accordingly and tuning the sounds on the same setup you'll be playing through live - which should be obvious, really - but the proper way to go about the Kemper would be FRFR.

For me it's always helpful to have a chart of what I get - and I think of each block as a filter (which adds/subs frequencies).

When you play your tube amp / real cabinet you have this:
(guitar) - TubePreAmp - TubePowerAmp - Cabinet - Room - (ears)

Now you are about to record your tone:
(guitar) - TubePreAmp - TubePowerAmp - Cabinet - Room - Mic/MicPlacement - MicPre - MixerSettings - (Recorder)

Or send it to a PA:
(guitar) - TubePreAmp - TubePowerAmp - Cabinet - Room - Mic/MicPlacement - MicPre - MixerSettings - PAAmp - PASpeaker - Room - (ears)

Now you create a profile of all this and play it via a FRFR system:
(guitar) - TubePreAmp - TubePowerAmp - Cabinet - Room - Mic/MicPlacement - MicPre - MixerSettings - FRFRAmp - FRFRSpeaker - Room (ears)

We can see - if everything is setup correct, high quality gear used - then the sound we record, get via PA and hear when we use the profile via a FRFR system should be very close.

Yes, the sound of the 'real amp next to me' may sound very different.

This can't be fixed without profiling in a totally different way.

To get about the same sound you need to profile like this - via a DI or Loadbox - without any microphone.
To better capture the power amp - cabinet interaction I would connect the real cabinet during the profiling session - it may sound different from a loadbox.
Profile at about the same level you would use for live use.

(guitar) - TubePreAmp - TubePowerAmp - (KPA)

Then play this via a linear amp (solid state) into your real cabinet - and you get

(guitar) - TubePreAmp - TubePowerAmp - FRFRAmp - Cabinet - Room - (ears)

Which is the same as your normal setup - since the FRFRAmp is linear.

Note:
You have to mic your cabinet to send it to the PA - as with your normal setup - since the sound of the KPA out's will not include the cabinet part.

My suggestion is to try a different profile that you like and then tweak. You're unlikely to get optimal results from a cabinet if it's not a DI profile. There are a few of those on the rig exchange too, try a few out and see if you find something you like. This is all really subjective too, perhaps you just prefer the sound of FRFR to cabinet with the Kemper.

Yes, recording guys love the Kemper - as bedroom players.

For live is it a different story.

If you are used to other digital gear - you'll love the Kemper.
In case you have used real tube amps, mic them and use IEM - you'll love the Kemper as well.

To get your Kemper and real cabinet close to your old sound is complicatet - see above - you need special DI profiles.

It's much easier to get your old sound when you go FRFR.
But even then you will NOT get the sound of your amp - but the miced sound of your amp - unlike the profiles were created to get the sound close to your amp next to you.

If you prefer the sound of a large guitar speaker pumping air - and want to send the best sound to your PA - You get a compromise on your monitor sound.

I'm confused.

If you use your Monitor out without cab sims into a power amp and guitar speaker.....or if you have the powerhead use the speaker out....then that should be like your old tube amp sound?

If you use your main out to the PA, and have the cab sims on......why can't that sound be very similar to the sound of a real tube amp that is mic'd up through the PA?

Thanks,
Andy

Try this:

- Let the Cab on in Amp section
- go to output and set "Monitor Cab Off"
- set the output at Monitor to "Monitor Mono"
- connect your poweramp to Monitor Out L
- play
- write the feedback in the forum

Quote from andyg_prs

I'm confused.

If you use your Monitor out without cab sims into a power amp and guitar speaker.....or if you have the powerhead use the speaker out....then that should be like your old tube amp sound?

If you use your main out to the PA, and have the cab sims on......why can't that sound be very similar to the sound of a real tube amp that is mic'd up through the PA?

Thanks,
Andy

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A large part of the preamp tone stack setting, power amp settings like presence controll and poweramp/cabinet interaction will be stored into the cabinet filter.

So when switching this off - you may hear a big difference in sound - and since this is different from profile to profile it can't be compensated.
Some don't care and like the sound anyway.

Others leave the cab sim on and compensate to their liking via EQ.

Experiment to find what works best for you.

In case you like to use profiles from amps recorded via different guitar cabinets - then IMHO is the only way FRFR.

Quote from Armin

A large part of the preamp tone stack setting, power amp settings like presence controll and poweramp/cabinet interaction will be stored into the cabinet filter.

So when switching this off - you may hear a big difference in sound - and since this is different from profile to profile it can't be compensated.
Some don't care and like the sound anyway.

Others leave the cab sim on and compensate to their liking via EQ.

Experiment to find what works best for you.

In case you like to use profiles from amps recorded via different guitar cabinets - then IMHO is the only way FRFR.

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Just to confirm - the main out, with cab sims on, into the PA, should be FRFR?

Yes

I won't tell an untruth here.......I had no luck whatsoever with my previous lunchbox running into several different power amps to different cabs. In fact, that was one of the main reasons I sold it previously a couple of years back. Moving fast forward to now, I have the powered rack version and it sounds Stellar through my Marshall 4x12 (1960ax) or pretty much any guitar cab I have tried it through.

Thus far, fantastic!

Doesn't Pete make profiles that take out the speaker emulation part so you can run to a CAB and not run into a situation where the KPA's "speaker emulation " runs colored by a real speaker?

Contact okstrat and ask him. He's really knowledgable about all things Marshall and a lot more, and knows a lot about this issue and plays live and records live very well.

Pete's Profiles is what you need to google, okstrat is his Kemper and TGP name if you want to PM him.

Quote from tonystees

All in all it is just to many obstacles to jump through to use this as a practical gigging rig for me. For the reasons below.
1. I already have a fine tube amp and pedals nicely mated together with a cabinet that sounds good.
2. I would have to purchase a floor controller
3. I would have to purchase a power amp or powered cab.
4. then protective cases for the stuff

When purchased i thought i could put together a 212 with the kemper and have a nice small package that feels and plays like a gainy marshall tube amp.
Ive kinda lost the drive now on that mission. However DI into my DAW this thing is pretty freakin incredible.

The kemper is like every other tool ! You gotta use the right tool for the right Job; and DI with a proper profile makes it the right tool !!! Thats my opinion !

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Did you try it through your Mustang? I've heard very good things about going this route. I think there are a couple version of the Mustang and the effects loop return location in the signal path is different so you might have to turn cabs off or research it.