Well, lasvideo, since I didn't quote your post or mention you specifically by name, my post was directed to anyone reading this thread.
It's helpful to remember that we're not engaging in a private conversation here and that others are reading along too.
But this post? This one was directed squarely at you.
LOL! Thanks for using the quote so we know what you are commenting on. Otherwise participants have to guess. And that can lead to impeded communication. Things can be confusing enough here 
LOL! Thanks for using the quote so we know what you are commenting on. Otherwise participants have to guess. And that can lead to impeded communication. Things can be confusing enough here
1. your reading comprehension isn't all it should be; and
2. please stop lecturing me on board protocol. 
Gladly, since now I see a reference to what the hell you are babbling about 
reported.
getting a little crazy up in this piece!! 
"what we have here is a failure to communicate..." 
I have 2 Strats, 1 tele, and a Les Paul.
For all of my guitars, I have to have the clean sense maxed out at 12 in order to balance gain at 0 and gain at 5. It will finally balance at a clean sense of 12 but I am surprised that so many report having clean sense set negative.
I have 2 Strats, 1 tele, and a Les Paul.
For all of my guitars, I have to have the clean sense maxed out at 12 in order to balance gain at 0 and gain at 5. It will finally balance at a clean sense of 12 but I am surprised that so many report having clean sense set negative.
I'd guess you have either a faulty cable or a faulty input jack in your KPA.
For all of my guitars, I have to have the clean sense maxed out at 12 in order to balance gain at 0 and gain at 5. It will finally balance at a clean sense of 12 but I am surprised that so many report having clean sense set negative
so it's set to +12 to get an even balance between full gain or 50% gain and zero (0) gain?? +12 would really crank the clean sound in my profiles..very surprising!
I'd guess you have either a faulty cable or a faulty input jack in your KPA.
No, there is nothing faulty. I have several cables and the instruments all sound the same through them. I also doubt that the input jack is faulty, as cables fit tight, no loose connection, and the input doesn't fluctuate, and no noise issue.
All of my guitars are custom shop models made in America and the pickups are vintage humbuckers or vintage single coils.
so it's set to +12 to get an even balance between full gain or 50% gain and zero (0) gain?? +12 would really crank the clean sound in my profiles..very surprising!
That's the best way I know to balance the clean sense. I find a nice profile like one of the Amp factories a JCM 800 profiled at moderate gain. Then I make sure that there are no effects, compression, or boost in the signal chain.
I set my gain to 0 and gently strum the guitar. Next I set the gain at 4 or 5 where there is a slight distortion, and gently strum again. I use the clean sense to adjust the sound so that the volume with gain at 0 balances the volume with the gain at 5.
In most cases the volume with gain at 0 just balances the volume with gain a 5 when I have clean sense maxed out at 12.
My input led stays green most of the time except when I strum multiple strings hard then I can hit the red but it doesn't sound clipped. My output sometimes hits orange and red with higher gain settings but doesn't sound off.
It does surprise me that others suggest such low clean sense settings.
Display MoreThat's the best way I know to balance the clean sense. I find a nice profile like one of the Amp factories a JCM 800 profiled at moderate gain. Then I make sure that there are no effects, compression, or boost in the signal chain.
I set my gain to 0 and gently strum the guitar. Next I set the gain at 4 or 5 where there is a slight distortion, and gently strum again. I use the clean sense to adjust the sound so that the volume with gain at 0 balances the volume with the gain at 5.
In most cases the volume with gain at 0 just balances the volume with gain a 5 when I have clean sense maxed out at 12.
My input led stays green most of the time except when I strum multiple strings hard then I can hit the red but it doesn't sound clipped. My output sometimes hits orange and red with higher gain settings but doesn't sound off.
Alright... I'll give it a try.. your method, and see the difference.. thanks..
I'm wondering though.. since volume balancing seems to be a perceived thing.. we perceive a change in volume, yes, we can hear a change but what is "equal" really? How can we measure it to be certain, make it quantitative, and take the qualitative out of the formula?
thanks gtrgriff3 .. so then.. maybe running the profiler through an input in a board and watching the level meter... gain up level, then level down meter, then raise or lower clean sense until it approx equal...
might be easier to record a guitar tone/playing up full and then use the reamp feature to tweak the input sense? anybody ever done this?
No, there is nothing faulty. I have several cables and the instruments all sound the same through them. I also doubt that the input jack is faulty, as cables fit tight, no loose connection, and the input doesn't fluctuate, and no noise issue.
All of my guitars are custom shop models made in America and the pickups are vintage humbuckers or vintage single coils.
When you strum hard on your guitars, with clean sense at +12.0, does the input LED light red?
Yes, it lights red if I strum hard. Most of the time it is green playing solo but if I hit multiple strings and pick aggressively it turns red.
I am sure that input is fine. It just takes a lot to balance clean with gained response.
I am sure using a meter would be more accurate but usually if I have the volume set at a low bedroom level and I listen carefully between volume at o gain and volume at 5 gain, I can tell when they balance. Too low and it is difficult to hear, Too high is noticeable as well. When balanced they both sound like they are at the same level.
I believe the key to read this is Peak value Vs. Average value.
It's like in the commercials on the radio, it seems that volume goes up but it usually doesn't, it's just more compressed.
A clean tone has got a very strong attack, stronger than a more compressed sound; but it decayes very quickly. So, if you compare the peak value of a distorted and a clean sound, at the same perceived loudness the clean peak is higher.
Maybe you are pushed to set CS to 12 because you're trying to equal the average (sustained, more or less) levels.
IOW, for the peak level to be equal, the clean sound has to be perceived lower.
On a side note, this is also the reason why many users say that cleans and distorted sounds are not balanced in level on the Profiler.
HTH
"I believe the key to read this is Peak value Vs. Average value. It's like in the commercials on the radio, it seems that volume goes up but it usually doesn't, it's just more compressed. A clean tone has got a very strong attack, stronger than a more compressed sound; but it decayes very quickly..."
Possibly but I prefer the feel and sound of the KPA using the method I suggested to use the clean sense to balance the volume. If I turn the clean sense down it seems as if adding gain boosts the volume way too much.
I don't really see a clean attack as being any different than a gained attack. Why would one be more compressed than the other just because of the gain setting on the amp. I would think compression would only matter if there was a compression stomp or boost in the signal chain.
Also when I balance the clean and gained, I am only applying a small amount of gain. Level 0 to Level 4 on the gain control is not like I am going from clean to totally distorted. More like clean to clean with a slight break .
I don't really see a clean attack as being any different than a gained attack. Why would one be more compressed than the other just because of the gain setting on the amp. I would think compression would only matter if there was a compression stomp or boost in the signal chain.
It has to do with the way distortion works: as you add gain, you'll notice changes in frequencies, particularly with respect to bass, which becomes more pronounced the higher the gain is. For the same reason, you'll often find that a clean sound is usually perceived as louder than a distorted.
I lack a detailed explanation, but it's something like this: the lower the frequency, the higher the level must be to achieve the same perceived volume.
thanks for the information guys... it's a very interesting and enlightening conversation.
