Definitive Clean Sense answer?

    I'm using FW 2.3 and I would have thought that the flat setting would be 0 and 0 for clean and distortion sense - but I saw another thread where it mentioned that flat is a clean sense of -12 and a distortion sense of 0... is that correct?


    What I'm looking for are the values of clean and distortion sense that will have no effect on my guitar at all (or, at least as little as possible.)


    And 2nd question to go along with that - I don't have any really hot or really quiet guitars. I don't use active pickups or anything so it's unlikely I'll need the extremes.


    Is it more advisable to boost a guitar that has weaker pickups, or attenuate a guitar that has hotter pickups? Assume that none of my guitars will clip the input stage at a flat setting (whatever that is.)


    Thanks!

    Quote from alwainwright

    0 dB for both clean and distortion sense is the default setting (no impact).


    When using my Jackson Soloist LS1 USA with the Kemper it sounds great with DIST SENS 0.


    When using my Fender Standard Stratocasert with the Kemper it sounds great with DIST SENS -2. If I set it to 0, when I turn gain up on any profile it sounds awful.

    The clean sense setting doesn't have any influence on the sound at all. Clean sense is there to balance the level of distorted and clean sounds. So raising the clean sense doesn't "boost" your guitar signal in front of the amp, i.e. there is no change in sound (which you would have, if you boosted a clean amp).
    What you can (and should) do is to use clean sense in order to get a reasonable balance of clean and distorted sounds. One way of achieving it is choosing a very distored factory preset with no stomps (pre amp) and no effects (post amp) engaged. Listen to the volume and then turn down the gain to zero - play again. Now, the volumes of full gain and 0 gain should be nearly the same. If the 0 gain sound is louder, turn down clean sense. If the 0 gain sound volume is lower, then turn up clean sense.
    Keep in mind, however, that clean sounds have a much wider dynamic range.
    Choose other factory profiles that have a lot of gain and repeat the process. I have found that sticking to factory presets for the adjustment of clean sense is the best way to go.


    CK wrote in one post, that you should simply not touch distorted sense - which is fine. However, if you use it, what it does is the same as raisng the gain on an amp profile. Thus, if you feel, that the gain on a profile is too high or too low for your liking, you could as well use the gain knob to adjust the amount of distortion to your liking.

    Quote from lasvideo

    When using my Jackson Soloist LS1 USA with the Kemper it sounds great with DIST SENS 0.


    When using my Fender Standard Stratocasert with the Kemper it sounds great with DIST SENS -2. If I set it to 0, when I turn gain up on any profile it sounds awful.


    Are you turning down the Dist Sense and then turning gain up?


    CKemper wrote this in another thread:


    "Distortion Sense is just an offset to the Gain control. Nothing more. You can achieve the same result by reducing the gain. Have you ever tried it? It's very obvious."


    But the scale of each control is different.

    Quote from joerch

    Thus, if you feel, that the gain on a profile is too high or too low for your liking, you could as well use the gain knob to adjust the amount of distortion to your liking.


    In my case the gain on ANY profile I played with my new Strat sounds raspy/overly distorted and just plain awful. I was at a point where the Kemper was sounding unusable with this guitar. I had tried EVERY possible function (INPUT/AMP/ETC) to try and get the nice sound of gain I get from the Soloist. As a last stab I tried DIST SENS , and thank god it worked. Now I can play any of the 2000+ profiles I have and with this adjustment the Strat sounds great.

    Edited once, last by lasvideo ().



    Well regardless,doing this in DIST SENS does it on a global level so I dont have to start tweeking each rig. Just setting it to -2 means I can use any rig as is. It worked out great doing it this way.

    Clean Sense simply provides a way to balance clean and distortion levels. You could twiddle Distortion Sense if you wanted to and then set Clean Sense to balance the two but why? Just leave Distortion Sense at 0 and adjust Clean Sense until your levels are balanced or, alternatively, the level you prefer.

    What I don't get with clean sense is when I turn down gain on drive profiles, clean is much louder even with clean sense at 0 with low output pickups (like my single coil nocaster 51's on my tele)...


    According to this I don't understand how can people use clean sense at more than 0... is it normal to have this "issue" with that kind of low output pickups?

    Quote from MrVivz

    What I don't get with clean sense is when I turn down gain on drive profiles, clean is much louder even with clean sense at 0 with low output pickups (like my single coil nocaster 51's on my tele)...


    According to this I don't understand how can people use clean sense at more than 0... is it normal to have this "issue" with that kind of low output pickups?


    Number 1: Make sure, that no EQ boost is engaged or any other stomp or effect that might alter the overall volume (naturally, if you consider what distortion is, basically, it cuts off the sound waves which results in what we perceive as distortion).
    And again: Go for the factory presets when you adjust your clean sense. I believe that these are the most consistent when it comes to the overall balance.
    But yes, if you turn down the gain and the clean sound is much louder, it's an indication that you should lower clean sense. Here, your ear and your perception is what matters. Don't care about what guitars, pickups, playing styles (hard strokes, softer strokes) other users might apply. You adjust your clean sense in a way that it is good for you, your playing style and your guitar.


    Number 2: Even with low or very low output pickups, some people like to have the pickup very close to the strings, others prefer to have them very far away. With a very low output pickup, adjusted very low, clean sense might need to be at +3 or more - but who cares?


    Just adjust clean sense in a way that feels comfortable for you.

    Edited once, last by joerch ().

    Thanks everyone... that trick of taking a profile with a lot of gain and turning it down to 0 was the best trick I've heard yet.


    On the gig yesterday I was able to tweak some of my input profiles for my Les Paul and Tele to where they are just right I think.


    For anyone interested, I'm running everything flat for my Tele and Strat since they are the lower output (in fact, my strat is boosted just a hair as the Tele is a little hotter.)


    I turned down the clean sense to about -5.5 for my LP by the time it was over. I also found that to keep distorted profiles sounding consistent between guitars in terms of the amount of gain I had to back off the distortion sense by a similar amount for the LP.

    Quote from MrVivz

    What I don't get with clean sense is when I turn down gain on drive profiles, clean is much louder even with clean sense at 0 with low output pickups (like my single coil nocaster 51's on my tele)...


    According to this I don't understand how can people use clean sense at more than 0... is it normal to have this "issue" with that kind of low output pickups?


    What is the said clean sens setting? Middle positon or fully to the left?

    I find clean sense adjustment very useful when using lower output instruments like my active bass or a mic with in line transformer (harmonica). I turn it right up and all's well in the world.

    so like I'm playing around with the clean sense today.. using the method recommended in this thread... took a distorted profile and adjusted the clean sense to equal perceived volume levels between high gain and no gain.. the result was pretty cool .. it's my perception that I hear a bit more clean guitar tone coming through in the distorted tone; kinda like the amp blend just not as pronounced... Is this what is supposed to be happening or is my perception off?


    also noticed that my levels are pretty close between my Anderson guitars and my gibsons, except the gibson is actually a little bit hotter clean sense.. i.e. anderson(S&HB) 3.4 gibson(HB) 4.2...

    Gettin' funky up in here..

    Quote from lasvideo

    Is this post directed at the OP or me? Its helpful to use a quote so folks reading will know what you are responding to. :)


    Well, lasvideo, since I didn't quote your post or mention you specifically by name, my post was directed to anyone reading this thread.


    It's helpful to remember that we're not engaging in a private conversation here and that others are reading along too.


    But this post? This one was directed squarely at you.