So much talk about amp in the room, taken by a microphone.
I have yet to hear an audio clip that demonstrates this sound.
Anybody?
I know this clip is always a reference about a MarkIIC+ in the room tone... something I am always trying to get.
I am very close with my profiles Kemper but I still fail somewhere in the highs...
I know this clip is always a reference about a MarkIIC+ in the room tone... something I am always trying to get.
I am very close with my profiles Kemper but I still fail somewhere in the highs...
nice tone!
yep its got the highs bright and clear and not ear piercing i cant seem to dial the highs in either , theres also something in the lows ...
So much talk about amp in the room, taken by a microphone.
I have yet to hear an audio clip that demonstrates this sound.
Anybody?
Ask Mr. Jay Mitchell, he wrote several times that his IRs sound exactly like his cabs did in the room where he took the IRs. He also explained how to (re)produce them.
IIRC he has also shared some of them on TGP for a certain time, so they should be around. i'm pretty sure I remember Scott Peterson owning some.
OTOH, I'm not sure this can be appreciated via an audio file, I guess you should be there... Or get the IR and use it in person 
Display Moreheres a clip of what i consider a great amp in a room recorded tone ....
and the room tone helps the guitar sit well in the mix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxA4WgIZmO8
the highs are softer and dont hurt the ear but still clear, the lows seem to pump like a resonance from the room , those are the things i find hard to nail with the kemper , and with every other modeler ive tried , the highs allways end up too harsh or too dull . a room keeps the highs bright without sounding harsh .
the room verb can be simulated using the onboard kemper verb
the kemper is the greatest amp imitation i have heard and i love it , but after trying tons of free and paid for profiles i am still chasing tones like this 1 when using the kemper direct for recording..
this sound may be obtainable with the kemper , i dont know i just havent nailed it yet ..
and yes that clip is from the real van halen album ... but lotsa room mics!
To me this clip does not sound like the final mix on the record. Indeed it sounds more like a room mic mix, while on the recording a closed mic sound is up front.
But I think there is artificial reverb on the track, and even more on the final mix. I even find the sound very fuzzy and raspy, much high end.
The pumping resonance is for sure from the amp, not from the room, as every amp has such resonance, more or less.
The highs can be perfectly tuned by carefully adjusting the presence control.
I did some attempts with the Rig "Till's Recto RAW 2" from the factory presets and had good results. This attempt was not to get an ampintheroom sound, but achieve a nice Van Halen sound.
I think the secret to VH's sound is a certain mid boost to the guitar.
Here is my setting based on Tills rig (I did it in 5 minutes, more refinement can be done!)
Wah Wah on Stomp D
Manual 5.5
Peak 2.0
Pedal Mode Off
Mix 50 % (Check against different pickup settings)
The rest:
Gain 7.0
Reverb Mix 25%
Display MoreAsk Mr. Jay Mitchell, he wrote several times that his IRs sound exactly like his cabs did in the room where he took the IRs. He also explained how to (re)produce them.
IIRC he has also shared some of them on TGP for a certain time, so they should be around. i'm pretty sure I remember Scott Peterson owning some.
OTOH, I'm not sure this can be appreciated via an audio file, I guess you should be there... Or get the IR and use it in person
As far as I understood, Jay took far mic'ed IRs and cut away the room portion (tail) from the IR.
Let me share my thoughts about this:
I believe those IRs can sound very well. However, he did not share the IRs or make some sound clips. No other person did this attempt and shared the results. Why is that? The technique is not rocket science.
Probably those IRs do not sound any special or magic. What stays is the pure cab sound without the room and with out the close mic effect (bass emphasis).
This approach is in contradiction to what the majority thinks what would be the perfect amp-in-the-room: keeping the room in the sound.
Jay cuts the room away, because you would listen to a linear speaker in a real room again. Do you want to listen to an amp-in-the-room-in-the-room? (recorded room and your real room)
The frequency responce of a guitar cabinet varies by the listening angle in a large amount. Much more than with linear speakers.
Such in-the-room IRs will be taken in a certain angle as well, to reflect a representative listening angle.
Such angle can also be achieved by closer micing, e.g. 50 cm, but the room will be below significance at that short distance.
Such situations can be profiled any time, without hassle. Has anyone tried that yet? Would be great to hear the results!
But probably this will not give the amp-in-the-room-experience, because linear speakers behave differently in the room.
Guitar speakers have this narrow radiation pattern for the high frequencies and beam it to the wall, where you hear it as a reflection only, when you don't bend down into the beam.
Combos have an open back and create reflections on the back wall. This makes a difference "in the room".
And most linear speakers simply don't provide such a massive bass responce as a 4x12 speaker.
The active surface area of a 4x12 speaker is equivalent to a 24' bass speaker! Ever had one?
For playing amp-in-the-room with the profiler, make a direct profile and play through a guitar speaker!
Display More
But probably this will not give the amp-in-the-room-experience, because linear speakers behave differently in the room.
Guitar speakers have this narrow radiation pattern for the high frequencies and beam it to the wall, where you hear it as a reflection only, when you don't bend down into the beam.
Combos have an open back and create reflections on the back wall. This makes a difference "in the room".
And most linear speakers simply don't provide such a massive bass responce as a 4x12 speaker.
The active surface area of a 4x12 speaker is equivalent to a 24' bass speaker! Ever had one?
For playing amp-in-the-room with the profiler, make a direct profile and play through a guitar speaker!
Do you think that a very large, linear playback solution would bring me closer to a guitar-cab feel?
Probably yes.
Try it out in a music store.
To me, a 'in the room' sound is more about a less 'colored' mic tone. So, a mic that is more linear responding. The venerable SM57 tone is definitely not a linear representation of the original amp tone. I don't think reverb or room reflections matter at all in this context. I DO think the PZM profiles sound less like a typical mic'd guitar tone and more like the real amp. 
I have done a lot of far miking - for some vintage combo amps - e.g. check my pack#36 - it works great for some amps.
I agree - to get a great "amp like" sound we need huge speakers - vua tiny near field monitors will it always sound closer to a recorded amp.
For playing amp-in-the-room with the profiler, make a direct profile and play through a guitar speaker!
That is imo exactly right. It is practically impossible to mimic the experience of the sound of a good amp speaker/cabinet coming to you by a FRFR. The way a guitar cab produces and radiates it sound is just different from a FRFR because these devices are designed differently.
I think the sound of a good cab (with good speaker of course) can be very pleasing. With comparing my own cab's (65 amp lil elvis combo and 65 amp empire head and 2x12 cab) versus various profiles sent through a FRFR yamaha dxr 12 ) the cabs always sounded more pleasent to me. But maybe I'mjust old fashioned and somewhat prejudiced.
I regulary go to see bands in smaller venues where there is no need to sent the guitar amp through a PA and at such occasions I often really can enjoy the sound of the guitarist directly from the amp, much more often than when i hear a miked sound trough the PA. When it is possible I also try to play not through the PA myself.
But when you do have to play trough the PA I guess there is almost no better solution than the Kemper: hassle free and always the same high-quality sound.
Also for recording it's the best piece of equipment you can buy I guess.
I just wonder how mr Kemper achieved to nail the tube sound so unbelievably well within a digital device. Additive synthesis with the original guitarsound ?, ...just blindly guessing and actually being totaly ignorant on the matter 
In my pre- Kemper, pre- modeler days I did the exact opposite:
Whenever a P.A. had a decent level of quality I would insist to have my amp miked up.
The result was a much more consistent sound through the venues.
I still remember that I lost my temper once (long, long ago...) when there was a P.A. with temporary technical problems and I refused to have my amp miked up. I regretted it deeply later on that evening.
