Making Profiles Sound Like the Clips - relationship between profiled gain, definition parameter and stomps??

    Morning All,


    Just a few questions around aiming to match downloaded (commercial) profiles to their respective sound-clips -


    Now, I appreciate I am using a different guitar to what will have been used for profiling - but some profiles are initially sounding WAY too distorted - over compressed and 'mushy' would be a good notion, here's what's happening -


    Clean and Dist sens are on '0'.


    -Profiles sound the 'worst' with a green scream stomp on - reducing the profiled gain helps a little.
    -The MAIN culprit appears to be the definition setting in the amp block - often this is at 10 or 9+ on quite a few profiles - dialling it back helps match the guitar, which in turn makes the green scream sound a lot less like the 'cocked wah' tone people have mentioned.
    -Same issue can be heard when swapping guitars - main axe is a Ltd EC-1000 with Tonerider Alnico II pu's - second is a custom yammy pacifica with BKP Warpig in the bridge. Alnico II's seem a fair bit brighter on the bridge - but that could be the guitar..


    Ltd pu's are around 5-6mm from the strings at the bridge, and to the pu ring on the neck - is it just possible that some profiles simply don't like the tone of my guitar and pu's? I'm a big old school Marshall fan, and been getting some good tones from the Top Jimi tones available, but struggling with Pete's (okstrat) Browneye modded Marshalls...I would have thought with lower output pu's I might have to bump up the gain, not the other way round?


    BTW - Pu's inductance is 6.6h - 11.8k bridge and 4.4h - 7.9k - if that has any bearing on things?


    Will post a clip to illustrate - I'm not bad-mouthing and profilers - everyone does a killer job - and, I don't have any amps to profile myself - so to an extent take a slight risk when purchasing and d/l profiles.


    Does anyone have any other tips for getting guitars to sound more like their tone examples? For some profiles it sounds like the internal gain is almost set too high...

    Bear in mind that if you heard a clip in a mix context, a lot might have changed. A guitar in a mix often sounds very different.
    First, try and replace the green scream with an EQ block that has a little extra volume and mids. I know the Kemper folks insist that the green scream sounds just like a TS and i believe them, but i guess i never liked the TS they modeled after. Too much low-end rolloff, too much 'cocked wah'.
    Second, don't be afraid to lower the definition knob, even significantly. Anything from the guitar to the thickness of your strings can make the default setting too high.
    Pete in particular is very 80's-minded and out of a mix context, 80's guitars are quite... Brash.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Apologies for the late reply - thanks for the responses.


    Input light is not clipping even with Clean Sens on +6 - Dist sens is always set on 0. Find the Clean sens adds a bit more 'body' to the profiles when used - is this correct even with a overdriven profile? Or am I fooling myself?

    Quote from Tonerider

    Apologies for the late reply - thanks for the responses.


    Input light is not clipping even with Clean Sens on +6 - Dist sens is always set on 0. Find the Clean sens adds a bit more 'body' to the profiles when used - is this correct even with a overdriven profile? Or am I fooling myself?


    The facts are that clean sense only changes volume for non overdriven signals.
    However, if you put an overdriven profile on and lower the guitar's volume until the sound 'cleans up', clean sense starts affecting it.
    Ditto when you let your sound naturally decay - it cleans up.


    Increasing clean sense will cause distorted sounds to 'swell' in volume as they decay and clean up.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Quote from Quitty

    Bear in mind that if you heard a clip in a mix context, a lot might have changed. A guitar in a mix often sounds very different.
    First, try and replace the green scream with an EQ block that has a little extra volume and mids. I know the Kemper folks insist that the green scream sounds just like a TS and i believe them, but i guess i never liked the TS they modeled after. Too much low-end rolloff, too much 'cocked wah'.
    Second, don't be afraid to lower the definition knob, even significantly. Anything from the guitar to the thickness of your strings can make the default setting too high.
    Pete in particular is very 80's-minded and out of a mix context, 80's guitars are quite... Brash.


    Do you own a Tube Screamer?

    Quote from ckemper


    Do you own a Tube Screamer?


    Yes. Some early nineties model.
    Feels to me like it shelves less lows and highs and is maybe a bit more 'relaxed' in the mids.
    Would it help if i profiled it?

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    CK,


    Out of interest, please is there any relationship between the input light NOT clipping but profiles still having too much distortion? I find putting a green scream or pure boost and getting past say 1.2 on the volume starts to turn things to mush...


    Clean sens set between 0 and +3.5


    Dist sens is on -2


    Appreciated,


    -Tonerider

    (Not) Clipping the input is regulated by CS, distortion by DS. Don't be afraid of lowering DS if that makes musical... sense.


    OTOH, if you do so for having your profiles sound like in a clip made with a guitar whose PUs are much weaker than yours, you will sound like that clip but your guitar will not sound... like itself, if that makes any... sense.
    HTH

    the green scream simply doesnt work for me. It does not sound bad with no drive and no volume boost, but imo also not good and far away from a real 808 or ts9.
    Use a real ts in the front or in the distortionloop..or a profile done with Ts.
    I would not dial back distortion sense but maybe your Pickups are too close to the strings? Can change a lot in gain and EQ

    Thanks Deadlight -


    Neck is 5.5mm from strings
    Bridge is 3.2mm


    Alnico II mags - so no string pull or unwanted vibration/overtones. Pickups are pretty dynamic - I'm cutting down to around 40-50 profiles tops - so quite happy to set clean/dist sens individually - then lock the input setting to a/b them later.


    Tone chasing, it's all great fun!



    Please explain this deeper.
    You talk about the volume parameter in the DS?

    Quote from Quitty


    Yes. Some early nineties model.
    Feels to me like it shelves less lows and highs and is maybe a bit more 'relaxed' in the mids.
    Would it help if i profiled it?


    Make a clip.
    An yes, try a profile, even though profiles of TS will not work well.
    Please be aware that the tone control of the Green Scream works in the first half of the range only.

    i would set bridge farer from the strings but it also depends on pickups.To near will cause ugly highs and strange gain. Maybe try 5 mm


    This can be clipping the Pickup, not the input. Try lowering and dial back distortion sense to zero

    Thanks Deadlight / Ck,


    Easiest thing to do is record a clip - will do that either tonight or tomorrow.


    Not noticed any issues with highs, and with the Alnico II pu's this seems like a sweet spot from the strings - move it further away and you lose some bass, which just makes it more mids and highs.