Has anyone compared a Yamaha Dsr112 to an Atomic Clr?

    Quote

    Also, noted that in terms of output, the DSR kills a single CLR at 1300 W vs 500 W.

    This statement is completely in error.


    First, the power rating in the CLR is extremely conservative. It is based on the ability of the three onboard amplifiers (and the power supply) to deliver continuous power to the transducers in the speaker. I have inspected a number of "1000 watt" powered monitors, and I have yet to encounter one with sufficient power to merit an honest rating of half that figure. If we had used the same rationale to provide a power rating for the CLR, the number would have been 1500 watts, not 500.


    Second, the electrical power rating of the amplifiers is only indirectly related to the acoustic power produced by the transducers. In reality, the sensitivity and linearity of the transducers always determines the maximum acoustic output a speaker can produce. Due to basic laws of physics, small two-way loudspeakers are incapable of producing continuous, linear SPL of more than 120 dB, and many fall far short of that. Unfortunately, manufacturers' claims are not a guarantee that a speaker will actually deliver. When the CLR is operating at its rated maximum SPL of 120dB, the amplifiers are supplying a total power of 100 watts to the speaker. The remaining available power of 1500 watts peak supplies an abundance of clean headroom.


    Comparisons based on manufacturers' specifications or amplifier power and/or maximum SPL are essentially meaningless. Only direct comparison conducted by a competent individual will tell you anything about maximum usable acoustic output.

    Hi. I don't want to enter the technical to and fro of this thread, but I own both. I have the CLR (cube, not the wedge) and I have a pair of DSR12 speakers for our rehearsal space. They are used as the vocal monitor.


    I can say I preferred the DSR in a side by side. I was having trouble getting over a sit-in second guitar one night, and went into the desk to see if that helped. No problem being heard (but there is a pair of them) but more importantly I preferred the sound and feel. More robust, closer to my real amp set-up.


    I'm not dissing on the CLR, I still use it both live and at rehearsal because it is more portable and ergonomic to sit my toaster atop, and everyone still comments how good the rig sounds. But to my ear, the DSR was a clear winner in the tone department. I had the CLR before picking up the DSR's in a run-out sale. Had I come by the DSR's first, I wouldn't have the CLR.


    Just sayin'.


    Peace, Nic.

    Quote from nico45

    I was having trouble getting over a sit-in second guitar one night, and went into the desk to see if that helped. No problem being heard (but there is a pair of them) but more importantly I preferred the sound and feel.

    The explanation is in your post. Based on your other comments, you used the CLR on the floor aimed horizontal (IOW as backline) and the other speakers either on poles or as wedges. Backline placement of any speaker will adversely affect its tone and reduce its ability to be heard. So, in addition to comparing a single CLR to a pair of the Yamahas - which by itself has a major effect on tonality - you were comparing speakers in two different placements. Odds are that, had your PA comprised CLRs, you would have had exactly the same comparative result, preferring a pair of them in wedge or pole-mount position to a single one in backline use. Hardly a surprising result....

    Quote from JayMitchell

    Quoted from "nico45"


    Odds are that, had your PA comprised CLRs, you would have had exactly the same comparative result, preferring a pair of them in wedge or pole-mount position to a single one in backline use. Hardly a surprising result....

    Well, betting odds can always disappoint, I guess. I have the backline CLR raised off the floor perched on a roadcase, and is at equivalent height to my waist/torso. Not simply shooting past my feet. The wedges in our (not exactly purpose built) rehearsal space are each sitting atop of some desks (not as wedges but upright on the desks). We rehearse in the drummers office space. So in fact they are both at almost the same height as each other. At the time I went between the two several times to appease my curiosity, placing myself in a number of different positions for each. The drummer in a seated position, with both types pretty much aimed at his head, preferred the DSR. I didn't say that in my previous post because, well, he is a drummer. What would he know! I have just responded to the OP request for views, I provided mine as I have the advantage of owning both. Not looking to go to war with anyone, but hope the OP can get something from my experience/opinion.


    I have already said, I am not unhappy with the CLR, but to MY EAR, the DSR is the winner.

    Quote from nico45

    to MY EAR, the DSR is the winner.


    ...which is exactly the point of explaining an opinion. There are few absolutes in audio, and I completely agree that the DSR is excellent. In my opionion it is considerably better than the DXR, but it is also twice as expensive. The CLR is by all means excellent, but things are hardly ever as superior as the most extreme fanbois claim. I might choose the CLR for a dedicated monitor, but the DSR is a more versatile and powerful speaker. Pricewise they're about the same.


    Availability and serviceability is much better for Yamaha than Atomic in all but possibly a handful of countries. Just the cost of shipping a unit to the UK or US for a repair is considerable, plus there's inconveniences with import/export documents etc. I've had experiences where papers have been messed up in shipping so that goods returned from warranty repair have counted as a fresh import, and I've had to pay 25% VAT for the second time on that equipment. This gets very expensive, and it is a lot simpler and cheaper to deal with local suppliers.

    I always would prefer a FRFR-system without a horn (CLR, Matrix Q12a, Camper 112CX). At Ingo's place I heard and played the CLR and it had a great sound.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

    Quote from guenterhaas


    I know that you are owning a DXR10, that's why I didn't mention it. I just would prefer any FRFR-cab without a horn. ;)


    Sorry, I edited my post above, I was reading too fast and my comprehension was too slow... ;)

    Quote from JayMitchell

    This statement is completely in error.



    That was my quote. Sorry, guys, Jay.


    Looking at things in terms of sound pressure level, as viabcroce pointed out to me, I learnt that for 6 db implies a doubling of the SPL factor. Since the DSR112 has a 4 db higher SPL, I think it's safe to say that the DSR112 is louder than the CLR.


    At least, I hope it's safe to say that ^^


    Naturally, this doesn't have anything to do with quality of sound, how flat a speaker is, etc. I'll leave that to the owners of these devices.

    Quote from nightlight

    Looking at things in terms of sound pressure level, as viabcroce pointed out to me, I learnt that for 6 db implies a doubling of the SPL

    No. A 3dB increase requires doubling power. To double the apparent volume (to make something sound "twice as loud") requires a 10dB increase.


    Quote

    Since the DSR112 has a 4 db higher SPL,

    It does not. The manufacturer's rated peak SPL is a bigger number. Even if this were accurate, it has nothing to do with how "loud" a speaker can get. The important specification is continuous average SPL. According to the independent lab tests that Yamaha commissioned (by a lab that used one of my speaker designs to check its calibration when it was first being set up), the DSR 12 is capabe of 118dB continuous maximum output. This is an accurate figure, and it tells you all you need to know. The data file with this information is on the downloads page for the product.


    Quote

    I think it's safe to say that the DSR112 is louder than the CLR.

    No. The DSR 12 will produce maximum SPL that is indistinguishable from that produced by the CLR. If you're looking for something louder than a CLR, you won't find it in a single-woofer two way speaker. It's those pesky laws of physics at work.