New profiling (Better cab separation)

    There are boxes that simulate the load of a cab (seen by the power amp), so the need for an actual connected cab depends on the DI you use.


    Whatever is connected to the power amp, it will nevertheless change the way the amp works: the amp sees a differently-shaped impedance and reacts differently.
    So yes, it matters anyway.


    :)

    Thanks for the answer :)


    Quote from viabcroce

    There are boxes that simulate the load of a cab (seen by the power amp), so the need for an actual connected cab depends on the DI you use.


    Oh, didn't thought about that. So i can use cab sim of my Behringer Ultra-G GI100 for profiling instead of a real guitar cab?


    Quote from viabcroce

    Whatever is connected to the power amp, it will nevertheless change the way the amp works: the amp sees a differently-shaped impedance and reacts differently.
    So yes, it matters anyway.


    :)


    So at what level does it matter if we do DI profiling with an 1x12 and then with the same model but 4x12? At which part are we going to see the difference(s) between these 2 profiles? Sound? Playing feeling? Something else? And when we are going to play a DI profile with other cabs, the profile will react based on the cab that has been used for the DI profiling? These things are unclear to me and i try to understand them. Because in my opinion, if a cab matters again, then this method it isn't perfect for cab separation, a characteristic of the cab will still remain.

    From my understanding: the impedance loading response of the real amp's amplifier when connected to a cabinet will have a direct effect on the amplifier section of the DI profile, but no effect on the cab section - there is no Cab section in the new DI profile.


    The impedance loading response is needed for use with the linear power amps that are used with these new DI profiles. The DI profile will have an output response like the real amp did, so it will work just like the real amp would with different cabinets.


    You touch a number of different issues here.


    The cab's complex impedance changes the sound of the amp at various frequencies, by attenuating or enforcing some frequencies and by inducing phase shifting in some others.


    You do not have to use a DI which involves a real cab, one that emulates a cab's load will do the job, and will generally present a simpler impedance curve than a real cab.
    But, you have to realize that an amp will always sound differently depending on its load. Even if the load was a straight copper wire, because there would be a different impedance than a cab's one.


    The key point is that an amp doesn't have a sound "by itself", or better such sound would be of no use, since you'd never hear it.


    :)

    Right.
    The speaker in a real cab changes it's impedance over different frequency-ranges, according to it's frequency-response (see speaker chart).
    The usual 8 Ohms DC-resistance are measured at 1 kHz . This influences up to a specific amount the reaction of the power-stage, which, as a part of a D.I.-profile, now has an impact to it.

    Quote from paults

    From my understanding: the impedance loading response of the real amp's amplifier when connected to a cabinet will have a direct effect on the amplifier section of the DI profile, but no effect on the cab section - there is no Cab section in the new DI profile.


    The impedance loading response is needed for use with the linear power amps that are used with these new DI profiles. The DI profile will have an output response like the real amp did, so it will work just like the real amp would with different cabinets.


    This doesn't make sense to me. It does if it's just one CAB that was part of the profiling. A known CAB having an impedance loading on the amp can be taken into account on the AMP DI. But the second you load a CAB that was not profiled in this manner with the same amp will have a differing impedances not taken into account on the first DI.


    So I do not see how changing out CABS can be authentic to just one DI. Each would need a separate AMP profiling to be authentic, no?

    Quote from db9091

    This doesn't make sense to me. It does if it's just one CAB that was part of the profiling. A known CAB having an impedance loading on the amp can be taken into account on the AMP DI. But the second you load a CAB that was not profiled in this manner with the same amp will have a differing impedances not taken into account on the first DI.


    So I do not see how changing out CABS can be authentic to just one DI. Each would need a separate AMP profiling to be authentic, no?


    +1
    To be fully authentic, it affords to take the D.I.profile and a studio-profile of the real amp and each cab, you want to use. Then you can interchange (merge) these cabs with no loss (of authenticity).
    So the most benefit of the new profiling method ist for all the guitar-cab users, who want to substitute their amp by the KPA and now can use their (same) guitarcab on stage, knowing that the D.I. profile is most authentic to the real-amp.

    Hi,


    Ok, Just made my First Merged Profiles on FW 2.7.4 and Razor Amp with Razor boost. Samples recorded with Kemper and real Hesu cab.

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    Stay Metal!

    Tomorrow we an all test out Michael Wagener's profiles via the new DI method.


    I'm pretty psyched! I'm bringing my Kemper to work. It looks just like a scientific instrument.


    Well, until I plug the guitar in. How to make my LP look like a distillation unit....

    Quote from db9091

    This doesn't make sense to me. It does if it's just one CAB that was part of the profiling. A known CAB having an impedance loading on the amp can be taken into account on the AMP DI. But the second you load a CAB that was not profiled in this manner with the same amp will have a differing impedances not taken into account on the first DI.


    So I do not see how changing out CABS can be authentic to just one DI. Each would need a separate AMP profiling to be authentic, no?


    Imo, this really is a major flaw of the new profiling concept. The reactive load presented to the output transformer of the amp changes with every cab. I did not yet make an approach to really compare the impact the different cabs have on the same amp when creating DI profiles. I only compared a cab as a reactive load vs. a load resistor. The differences on the DI profiles were huge. Maybe someone with highly different cabs could do a comparison on DI profiles? Like a "1 x 12 vs. 4 x 12" with different speaker types?

    Did someone read the new artcle in the nes section of the Kemper HP?

    Quote

    Now with Direct Profiling Kemper have gone even further and are able to capture the sound of a tube-amp including its power-amp separately from the cab - even when the cabinet load is active. This works by tapping the sound exactly where it hits the speaker cabinet: The speaker output! As high voltage and high wattage are present, a dedicated DI is required. This specialized DI box is capable of scaling down the tube power amp voltage to a line-level signal, suitable for the Profiler, on a XLR output jack. The high-power signal is forwarded to the speaker cabinet through a different output jack.
    What is the purpose of this when the sound of the speaker will not be captured in the Profile? The purpose is to capture the amp including the complex impedance behavior of the speaker. This method captures those often discussed interactions between the power tube-amp and the connected speaker cabinet. When the Profile is played back through the Profiler’s built-in class D amp, or an external solid state power amp, it will recreate the same impedance situation to the connected speaker-cabinet. This is the key to making the built-in power-amp sound like a real tube power-amp.