Monitoring Rigs ....can we do it accurately for our own setup ?

    Ok , I'm not a techie but I was wondering if this kind of solution might be possible ............. ????


    Like everyone else , I audition rigs from various sources before I decide which ones to use live .... problem is that what I hear doesn't relect the audio parameters of what my sound is like out front of the band PA ( Dynacord & EAW ).


    Is there any way that a function could be introduced so the audio signal out of the KPA feeding the desk can feed back the processed ( desk ) signal to the KPA (and be available in headphones to replicate what the FOH receives?
    Basically , Is there a way of capturing and hearing the signal that goes out front so we can alter our eq , rigs , profiles etc... accurately to make them sound the way we really want them to ? This solution would also be specific to each setup of course.


    Before you say it , Monitor out doesn't do this as the desk process isn't in the mix......

    Well, you should mic the room in order to get back what the audience hear... and the mic would change the sound anyway.


    The best option I'm aware of would be to use a long cable (or a wireless solution) and play from the parterre.


    Or, before you set your spot on stage, put your Profiler in front of the mixing desk and play from there.


    Of course the room response will be different depending on whether it's empty or full.


    :)


    I just don't thinks its realistic to get that exact same tone through your monitor as what is out of the PA. I'm sure the speakers and processing is different for one. You don't say what you use for a monitor. When I get a sound check I leave my monitor off to make sure it sounds good through the PA, once I like it I turn on my monitor. We use the same sound guy and he runs a digital Mackie board and if we have played there before he just recalls the mix. I have found leaving my monitor in a vertical position and a little off the ground sounds much better to me. Depending on the room I may need to tweak the monitor's EQ slightly but I find this less often with the vertical position. I like the sound out of my monitor but my guitar always sounds much better through the PA since its louder and bigger sounding. I do not play with much stage volume only enough to clearly hear myself on rhythm parts.

    It pays to test out your settings in a new venue before the gig. Showing up early is one way to do this. I understand it might not always be possible. But in order to get the best possible sound, you need to do a soundcheck. As suggested being in front of the PA while someone else plays through your Kemper is a good idea. Do your tweaking, then head back to the stage Kemper in tow.


    But if you want your sound to translate across multiple sources, the best thing to do -- as suggested -- is do your tweaking on the flattest source possible. Studio monitors are great for this. Once you have a good sound on a flat pair of speakers, there will be minimal deviation in the tone across other sources, unless of course something is happening at the mixer end (which should not, everything should be set flat). Then, if there's any frequency response to be tweaked, rely on the output EQ settings to get you in the right spot.


    As far as translation, remember that you have to tweak your profiles at gig volumes in order to get an even match at those same gig volumes on a PA speaker. Playing at low bedroom volumes and expecting your tone to sound the same when your playing much louder is not a good strategy.

    ' If I'm understanding what you are trying to achieve, I don't think there is any point...the signal going to the pa is the same your headphone out, unless you change the eq, and any EQ changes should be monitored through the pa as the pa would be the only variable in this situation '


    The PA is the variable that I'm talking about trying to capture for accurate FOH monitoring purposes

    [/quote] I just don't thinks its realistic to get that exact same tone through your monitor as what is out of the PA. I'm sure the speakers and processing is different for one. You don't say what you use for a monitor. When I get a sound check I leave my monitor off to make sure it sounds good through the PA, once I like it I turn on my monitor. We use the same sound guy and he runs a digital Mackie board and if we have played there before he just recalls the mix. I have found leaving my monitor in a vertical position and a little off the ground sounds much better to me. Depending on the room I may need to tweak the monitor's EQ slightly but I find this less often with the vertical position. I like the sound out of my monitor but my guitar always sounds much better through the PA since its louder and bigger sounding. I do not play with much stage volume only enough to clearly hear myself on rhythm parts.[/quote]



    I use IEM's

    What I'm talking about is an accurate reflection of the fully processed FOH KPA sound going to the speakers that can be captured by the KPA and possibly assignable as a stomp when editing / tweaking rigs in a home / studio setting remotely for a particular FOH PA setup ( as in all rack effects , eq's in the circuit on the PA would be in the signal path ) I would assume the only semi accurate option would be to do same via headphones as well.

    Although PA-rigs may be far from linear, a good audio-engineer with a decent PA-rig shouldn't color your tone significantly. Whenever I've got a PA-system dialled in for a particular venue I hardly ever have to do anything (no EQ, FX, dyn, gate etc) with the KPAs channel(s) to make it sound just about the same through the PA as from a monitor hooked to the KPA. You may experience otherwise if you and the soundman have very different ideas about guitar-sound, but in that case it is your responsibility as a guitarist to demonstrate how it sounds in your monitor (or headset) and that tell them this is what you want through the PA. I don't think it is a good idea for any musician to try to compensate for a bad mix.