Roll your own GRFR + FRFR speaker cabinet with the Camper 112 Plus KIT soon !

Quote from Pick909

Well, here is a a problem that occur often when you change from one FRFR box for a new one. You use you tweeked profiles (with your older cab) with your new cab and boom too much of bass not enough of mids etc. The best way is to compare the new cab with a good studio monitor, not with your older cab which was most probably not especially flat itself. Or you can also choose somme untweeked profiles (from M Britt for example) which has the reputation to be very thru.

Maybe you're right and the C+ kit is too much bassy, but maybe it was your older cab that lack of bass and if it's the case then you will have to tweek all your profiles and not apply a general EQ to this cab.

Nope. I'm playing over studio monitors at home and dial in my sounds that way. When I'm in the rehearsal room I use the master EQ to make the sound fit to the guitar cabinet that is used.

I find the different rig presets inside the kemper THAT good that I tweak the sound only minimal. Maybe a bit more/less definition or presence that's all. I didnt' touch the bass at all.

I agree that a FRFR cab should be as neutral as a studio montor.

But to be honest - it's basically not a studio montior. It's still a guitar cabiniet with only a full reponse speaker built into it. So I think you still have to play with the master EQ settings...

By the way: The DIY Kit sounds awesome once you dialed in your EQ settings...

Quote from Stefanowitsch

I agree that a FRFR cab should be as neutral as a studio montor.
But to be honest - it's basically not a studio montior. It's still a guitar cabiniet with only a full reponse speaker built into it. So I think you still have to play with the master EQ settings...

I agree with Marco. If it's flat it's flat regardless if it's labelled 'studio monitor' or 'FRFR'.
So there seems to be some perceived dysbalance regarding bass response here.
Provided that the measurements of Yamaha and kpa-solutions are correct regarding the flatness (which I assume they are) the first thing that needs to be done when doing a comparison between the DIY and the DXR would be to ELEVATE BOTH FROM THE FLOOR ABOVE EAR LEVEL to prevent reflections boosting the bass (which I assume happens A LOT with the C+ kit, whereas the Yamaha DXR10 has a compensation switch when used as wedge or FOH).

Yes. The C+ is calculated for standing on the floor. But if the C+ stands in front of a wall or a corner, the bass (<200 Hz) will be up to 6 db (wall) or 12 dB (corner) louder. In this case you have to use the EQ.

Quote from Gitarrenschlumpf

Yes. The C+ is calculated for standing on the floor. But if the C+ stands in front of a wall or a corner, the bass will be round about 6 db (wall) or 12 dB (corner) louder. In this case you have to use the EQ.

Good to know

Quote from Gitarrenschlumpf

Yes. The C+ is calculated for standing on the floor. But if the C+ stands in front of a wall or a corner, the bass (<200 Hz) will be up to 6 db (wall) or 12 dB (corner) louder. In this case you have to use the EQ.

It is bass heavy in a small room near a wall. I found it sounds better on an angled stand in those circumstances. I can equ that easily.

Problem I have is I used to play through a 2x12 guitar cab and had monitor turned off, turned it back on and I'm getting clipping on the output even though I've turned master up to match the volume level I had on the 2x12?

Do you see the output led clipping or do you hear the clipping out of the cab? What amplifier do you use with the cab?

Quote from Gitarrenschlumpf

Yes. The C+ is calculated for standing on the floor. But if the C+ stands in front of a wall or a corner, the bass (<200 Hz) will be up to 6 db (wall) or 12 dB (corner) louder. In this case you have to use the EQ.

Yes, you cannot beat physics.
Also standing on the ground boosts low frequencies IIRC.
Accurate comparisons therefore call for de- coupling from surfaces.

Quote from Gitarrenschlumpf

Do you see the output led clipping or do you hear the clipping out of the cab? What amplifier do you use with the cab?

Its a a kemper power head. On one profile I can hear it clearly via the cab. Nothing's changed apart from monitor off unticked and master vol raised slightly.

Okay. So you power the C+ with 600 watts. .. Your 2x12. Which brand? What speakers inside? Parallel or serial? .. Your output led. Turns it to red sometimes?

Quote from Gitarrenschlumpf

Okay. So you power the C+ with 600 watts. .. Your 2x12. Which brand? What speakers inside? Parallel or serial? .. Your output led. Turns it to red sometimes?

My 2x12 has a 16ohm Vintage 30 and a 16ohm GT12/75 wired parallel for 8ohm. Using 2x12 output led did not turn red. Same speaker cable.

Apart from cab only other difference is I now untick MonitorCab off and have to turn Master Volume up to get same audio level. To fix it I have to reduce profile volume by 2db and increase Master Volume further?

Vintage 30: 60 watt RMS, 100 dB/w/m
GT12/75: 75 watt RMS, 97 dB/w/m

both: It´s very difficult to calculate mixed speaker pairs (impedance responses...) , but it should be round about like this: 8 ohm, 135 watt RMS, 98,5 dB/w/m

C+: 8 ohm, 200 watt RMS @GFR, 98 dB/w/m

So your 2x12 is 0,5 dB louder than the C+ at the same power and moves twice of the air because of the doubled speaker area. I don´t know if the level of the output stays the same, if you activate the cab sim.

Quote from Gitarrenschlumpf

Vintage 30: 60 watt RMS, 100 dB/w/m
GT12/75: 75 watt RMS, 97 dB/w/m

both: It´s very difficult to calculate mixed speaker pairs (impedance responses...) , but it should be round about like this: 8 ohm, 135 watt RMS, 98,5 dB/w/m

C+: 8 ohm, 200 watt RMS @GFR, 98 dB/w/m

So your 2x12 is 0,5 dB louder than the C+ at the same power and moves twice of the air because of the doubled speaker area. I don´t know if the level of the output stays the same, if you activate the cab sim.

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Seems it does alter output level when cab sim is activated.

I'm going to try a system reset first, if that doesn't work a flash memory wipe. Must be some screwy level setting somewhere.

Got mine and installed today

For some reason my Palmers came without the mounting bolts (does anyone know the spec of those?) but I managed to number-8-wire a solution that I think is still mechanically sound.

Not noticing any of this extra bass, but I have my as the upper in a microstack so that might explain it. Seems pretty flat and extremely cab-like, I don't know if it's just a placebo from it looking like a guitar cab but it made me feel as if I was playing a regular amp!

I can't really tell the difference between the two modes, might that be because my clean/low-gain rigs won't have much higher harmonic content that the clipping would create in more br00ts profiles?

I'm guessing that the full-range input is the one that the leads from the x-over connect to and the guitar-range is the one connected to that by the jumpers.

Quote from Eru

Got mine and installed today

For some reason my Palmers came without the mounting bolts (does anyone know the spec of those?) but I managed to number-8-wire a solution that I think is still mechanically sound.

Not noticing any of this extra bass, but I have my as the upper in a microstack so that might explain it. Seems pretty flat and extremely cab-like, I don't know if it's just a placebo from it looking like a guitar cab but it made me feel as if I was playing a regular amp!

I can't really tell the difference between the two modes, might that be because my clean/low-gain rigs won't have much higher harmonic content that the clipping would create in more br00ts profiles?

I'm guessing that the full-range input is the one that the leads from the x-over connect to and the guitar-range is the one connected to that by the jumpers.

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Fixings are 5mm. I used some 25mm long socket headed screws.

Full range uses both speakers, guitar only cuts the tweeter out.

You only notice the difference between GFR and FRFR, when you play acoustic guitar or a CD.

Quote from Tilman

If you got a Palmer and our kit , but no mounting screws for the 12" speaker please let me know.
I will send you a set of screws then.

I'm hoping to get to the installation of the big speaker this weekend and I'm not sure if I got anything with my Palmer either. If I end up missing stuff needed for installation I'll let you know.
Thanks, man!

Quote from Pilotltd

Seems it does alter output level when cab sim is activated.

I'm going to try a system reset first, if that doesn't work a flash memory wipe. Must be some screwy level setting somewhere.

System reset worked - sort of! Initially after powering up got the bug Lasse posted about. Amp immediately went full master volume with huge farting feedback. Powered off and on again and it seems OK - clipping has gone.

Thankfully speakers seem to have survived 600W for the 4 or 5 seconds it took me to react and power off

I've not decided yet whether to go back to 2.7.4 but I'm busy for the next few days setting up a sound system in my local music venue, takes a while as free beer is involved

Quote from Tilman

Hi guys,

I am sorry to hear that there are no mounting screws delivered with the Palmer anymore. The first batch of Palmers we bought came with a set of
M5 x 20mm screws, so we were thinking that is the way it goes.
Obviously things have changed and Palmer did cut some costs.....

This fact might be a big problem for users outside Europe or in the UK, because Palmers mounting nuts are metric threaded, so you will need metric threaded M5 screws.
Some countries use inch threaded screws which will not fit into the Palmer.....

The kits we deliver from now on will come with 4 x M5x20mm screws so there is no problem with that anymore.

If you got a Palmer and our kit , but no mounting screws for the 12" speaker please let me know.
I will send you a set of screws then.

Tilman

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Haha don't worry about it Tilman! NZ is a loooong way to send a few measley machine screws and we're a metric country anyway