Your KPA Recording Setup (NON-REAMPING ONLY)

  • Hey everyone,


    I've had my KPA for nearly 3 years now but have never used it for recording. I specified non-reamping setups only because it seems like every Kemper-related thread or article or video deals with reamping and SPDIF, and I hate the very idea of reamping. To me, the sound of and interaction with the amp is organic and affects the performance. Reamping the dry signal with a different setup is too sterile. I guess I'm just old school.


    Anyway, I have two choices currently: I have an Apogee One and a Zoom R24. I want to record with all effects and everything from the whole Kemper stack and signal chain. With the Apogee One, I'd have to use the Master Mono. (Correct?) With the Zoom, I can record Left & Right simultaneously, but lose the ability to go direct to my DAW (Reaper).


    Does anyone here have any experience recording the Kemper with either device? Has anyone used a Zoom R24/R16/R8 as an interface?


    Any latency issues experienced?


    Any comments welcome.


    Thanks.

  • You can go directly to your DAW, if it recognizes the R24 as an 8X2 Interface:


    "The R24 can function as an audio interface, enabling direct input of sounds to a computer. Support for 24-bit/96-kHz encoding ensures high-quality sound. Eight input channels and two output channels can be used simultaneously. The internal DSP effects of the R24 can also be used when the sampling rate is 44.1 kHz. A dedicated knob lets you adjust the balance between the DAW playback sound and the direct input sound when monitoring."


    http://www.zoom.co.jp/products/r24

  • You can go directly to your DAW, if it recognizes the R24 as an 8X2 Interface:


    "The R24 can function as an audio interface, enabling direct input of sounds to a computer. Support for 24-bit/96-kHz encoding ensures high-quality sound. Eight input channels and two output channels can be used simultaneously. The internal DSP effects of the R24 can also be used when the sampling rate is 44.1 kHz. A dedicated knob lets you adjust the balance between the DAW playback sound and the direct input sound when monitoring."


    http://www.zoom.co.jp/products/r24

    Thanks for your reply. I'm going to try using my R24 as an interface, except I've read several times that latency is an issue, and that's one thing that drives me crazy.


    I'm starting to be curious about going another route---SDIF; however, again, I don't want to do any reamping. I would just want to use the Stereo mix. I think I'm going to post a new question I have about this since I'm off on a tangent.

  • If you're never going to do any reamping, I personally do not see much use for the SPDIF connection, really. I know many people get their panties all in a bunch regarding several AD/DA conversion, but I'm not buying it :)


    After all, I think the tape as a medium is all but dead today, so when the vast majority of recording studios use outboard gear for mixing, they go through several AD/DA conversions anyway. Like once sending a track to an outboard compressor, then once for some buss EQ, and then once for the master buss compression. Whatever :-). They may have nicer converters than my measly focusrite interface, but I sincerely doubt there is any problem on my end.

  • If you're never going to do any reamping, I personally do not see much use for the SPDIF connection, really. I know many people get their panties all in a bunch regarding several AD/DA conversion, but I'm not buying it :)


    After all, I think the tape as a medium is all but dead today, so when the vast majority of recording studios use outboard gear for mixing, they go through several AD/DA conversions anyway. Like once sending a track to an outboard compressor, then once for some buss EQ, and then once for the master buss compression. Whatever :-). They may have nicer converters than my measly focusrite interface, but I sincerely doubt there is any problem on my end.

    I agree that the whole extra AD/DA digital conversion(s) is probably much ado about nothing and also probably indiscernible to the average ear.


    Just out of curiosity, though, how many SPDIF cables (1 or 2) are necessary if going this route with the Kemper (no reamping)?

  • That is completely incorrect.
    S/Pdif is very noticeably better than any analog form, period - it is completely impervious to noise interference, has a higher S/N ratio and less impedance issues which translates into a significant increase in treble content - and all this is disregarding audio 'character', just so that we can skip the audiophile argument about what sounds 'better'. It should also have less latency, although that might not be as significant.
    Try it. You'd have to be deaf not to hear the difference, even with a 'limited bandwidth' signal like a guitar.
    Crank the volume a bit on your current system, without plugging anything in. Doesn't have to be uncomfortably loud, just loud enough to hear the hiss. That hiss will be gone, and everything it covers up will suddenly be heard. The difference should be significant.


    The difference becomes much, much greater when your system is not all high-end because almost no component can have a degrading effect on your audio or noise levels with S/Pdif.


    If you can, go the S/Pdif route. Always.
    You'll need one cable, between your Profiler and your interface or receiver.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

  • Thanks very much, Quitty. You mentioned the "H" word---"hiss." If there's one thing I hate more than latency, it's noise. I'm gonna give it a try.

  • OK, with regards to noise, sure. Correct. However, as long as you use balanced connections between the kemper and your interface this becomes less of an issue in my opinion. Same goes for impedance, I don't think that matters at all, really. BTW, provided that my previous argument regarding ad/da conversions in pro and semi-pro studios can be bought, the same arguments could go for these matters as well.


    But I would say that the quality of the audio interface would probably matter more in this scenario (guesswork on my part) (edit: I see you said this already, Quitty - sorry for repeating :-)). Of course, in an environment with a lot of electromagnetic interference, chances are that the problems will be bigger also.


    I will need to test on all this :) should be fairly easy.


    I will rephrase my advice: If you already have an interface with spdif connections, get the cable (and yes, only one cable as long as you don't do reamping - it's a stereo signal (as in two mono streams). If you don't have the interface, don't necessarily feel you have to buy it.


    (I'm happily spdif'ing myself, by the way)

  • I am using spdif without any problem and a consumer chinch cable.


    guitar -> Kemper -> spdif out -> Interface spdif in -> usb/firewire out -> PC in -> Logic.

    90% of the game is half-mental.

  • I just got the Apogee One for quality listening on my Macbook and the occasional touch up recording.


    For solo's I do like the effects in stereo, but I've found that often it's better to use Mono. Much more versatile to mix with and alter effects.
    If you nail a performance that is wet, great. But 9/10 times that isn't true for me and I need more/less reverb, or delay or, whatever, so I go dry and dry means: Mono.


    That said I used SPDIF on my PC through a Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 and that over the Presonus Firepod 10 analog is DAY and NIGHT in sound which I can only attribute to the lack of A/D conversion. Perhaps not the best "test" but this is the way I qualify this qualitatively: If it sounds recorded pretty much like how it sounds in my very flat frequency headphones, then it's "truer" than if the signal quality seems muddier or less clear, etc.


    So SPDIF does count for me. There is a place for Stereo and Mono. It's best to have the option of Stereo. Sounds like you need a NEW Audio Interface.

  • OK, after a whole evening of trial and error with the Kemper, a SPDIF coax cable, a Focusrite Pro 24 DSP interface, and Saffire Mix Control, finally---success!!! I recorded a quick scratch track of some noodling with a medium/high gain profile and it sounded absolutely stellar!


    I still don't get Mix Control, though; it's thoroughly confusing. No matter what I did, I could not set the sync source to external so that the Kemper could be the master. No matter what I do, it sticks on Internal.I have no idea if the 2 devices sync'd up correctly, or how I'd even go about checking it. Still, I did manage to record successfully.


    I am so psyched right now...

  • Mix control shouldn't have anything to do with sync. Is that a typo?
    To get sync to switch you have to make sure nothing on your computer is currently using the audio service - even a paused youtube video will lock the sync in place.
    Also note that when the sync is external, disconnecting the Kemper will cause all audio to stop playing, so you have to toggle it back and forth.


    Congratulations, regardless!

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

  • I've got a Zoom R24 and tested this with the Kemper non reamping. sounds great to me, minimal latency .
    In my normal setup the Zoom is only a DAW controller and use a Behringer FCA610 for SPDI and reamping. I record Always two tracks
    1. mono dry guitar signal
    2. SPDIF wet signal form the Kemper


    This gives me the interaction with the wet sound plus the option to reamp if needed.
    The Zoom has nice preamps and the FCA610 digital recording is quiet too, plus minimal latency too.

  • Mix control shouldn't have anything to do with sync. Is that a typo?
    To get sync to switch you have to make sure nothing on your computer is currently using the audio service - even a paused youtube video will lock the sync in place.
    Also note that when the sync is external, disconnecting the Kemper will cause all audio to stop playing, so you have to toggle it back and forth.


    Congratulations, regardless!

    Mix Control, I should have elaborated, is Focusrite's software for their interfaces. One of the controls within it is a drop-down menu for sync source. It's currently stuck on "Internal," meaning that it is defaulting the interface as master, and I'm trying to make the KPA the master instead of the slave. But your info about making sure nothing else is trying to access the soundcard is an interesting possibility that I'm going to check into.


    Thanks!

  • I've got a Zoom R24 and tested this with the Kemper non reamping. sounds great to me, minimal latency .
    In my normal setup the Zoom is only a DAW controller and use a Behringer FCA610 for SPDI and reamping. I record Always two tracks
    1. mono dry guitar signal
    2. SPDIF wet signal form the Kemper


    This gives me the interaction with the wet sound plus the option to reamp if needed.
    The Zoom has nice preamps and the FCA610 digital recording is quiet too, plus minimal latency too.

    That is good to know---thank you. I'm going to keep at the Saffire Pro/SPDIF thing to see if I can wrap my head around it and iron out the kinks, but it seems really, really promising so far.

  • Gtr65,


    I've had a few go arounds with my Focusrite 6i6.
    just wanted to mention that my experience with their customer service was absolutely top shelf.
    it took them a little bit to reply.
    but they were dogged in making sure that I got things working how I wanted them to.
    they got it going on, man.

    Acoust-tech Nerdicous Roxus

  • I find myself often restoring from Hardware after somehow screwing up the Focusrite settings. MixControl is still a little bit confusing to me.


    That said, there is a decent tutorial by TheRecordingRevolution on YouTube if you look it up by Graham Cochrane. It'll get you to understanding the basics of what MixControl does for you and how to manipulate some flow and level settings, especially how it relates to your DAW.


    Here it is:

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  • Not really sure what kinda answers you were expecting here. Everyone records the same way, either with a mono or stereo connection to a soundcard via analogue or digital outs.


    "sound of and interaction with the amp is organic and affects the performance. Reamping the dry signal with a different setup is too sterile." Arguing about "sterile" when recording digitally with computers using a digital amp modeller is a bit redundant IMO. Reamping is immensely useful for all sorts. For eg MANY bands have intonation problems with recording, especially down tuned stuff on bass guitars. When recording my bands album i was able to record the bass tone along with the dry signal of the bass, tune it, then reamp with the KPA and lose the old wet signal. Perfect sound, perfect intonation.

  • So...I haven't done the SPDIF thing with my Kemper as of yet. My interface has only the digital in. I haven't really looked much into reamping but I gather you need the digital out as well to back to the kemper if doing reamping, correct?


    I will have a go at some point soon with the spdif in to my interface. I have to get one of those spdif to toslink convertors, unfortunately.