Poor FRFR Results

    I have a powered lunchbox and the tones direct into my guitar cabinet (cab sims off) have been good so I decided to give the FRFR thing a try last night and didn't have a good experience. I connected the left XLR main out into a JBL PRX512, set the main output to mono, and turned the cab sims on. The sounds were very bassy, dull, and murky for lack of better terms. I was using Michael Britt's profiles which are very well reviewed and voiced to be virtually good to go. These profiles sounded nice into my guitar cab but significantly different using the JBL. Am I missing an important step here?

    I suspect that the EQ would need to be completely different between the two. You can save different EQ setting for each Output type, and then load those in depending on which setup you're using.

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    Thanks for the replies. Michael Britt's profiles were actually voiced to be used in a FRFR setup with minimal tweaking. The ironic thing is for me, they sound mostly good through a traditional guitar cabinet with the cab sims off but when I switch them on running FRFR, the resulting sound is as described in my original post. I emailed Michael and he said he rarely touches the output EQ. The problem is if I change the EQ of the actual patch to better fit the FRFR then that also will completely change the sound coming out of the guitar cab. The difference was so immense I could have sworn I had something on or off that I shouldn't have.

    Of course, it's possible that you had something on or off in the settings that was different. However, don't forget that the JBL speaker you were using has its own characteristics. Tweak for that speaker in the Output EQ settings, then save it with a name that identifies that speaker.

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    Setting EQ in the Output provides a means for adjusting all rigs for the given speaker setup. Then, when changing the speaker, you simply create a new EQ for that speaker and name it too. Otherwise, you have to edit every rig and create multiples ...

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    Quote from Zappledan

    Setting EQ in the Output provides a means for adjusting all rigs for the given speaker setup. Then, when changing the speaker, you simply create a new EQ for that speaker and name it too. Otherwise, you have to edit every rig and create multiples ...


    Yes that is another way to do it. But with limited time at gigs I would probably forget to change the out preset to suot the speaker. For example If you had your first 5 slots in performance 1 set up for profiles with cab EQ and then your other 5 slots in performance 2
    set to profiles with FRFR EQ when at a gig all you would have to do is change from performance 1 to 2 to suit your speaker. That's how I would do it just because I'd forget to change the output EQ what with organising the sound check PA set up and setting my own gear up i know I'd forget lol :)

    Is it too much to want both? Meaning, I'd like the profile to sound good both FOH and through my stage monitoring. I realize there likely has to be some prioritizing/compromise and the FOH should get priority but the difference between the guitar cab and FRFR was too great in my brief testing that it felt by the time I tried to find some sort of middle ground I wouldn't care for either sound.

    I realize the point of FRFR is the sound represents the whole chain and what a mic'd up amp is supposed to sound like. This just seemed like a major departure. As for positioning, the speaker was standing upright and I was sitting in front of it.

    If it was standing upright on the floor, that could explain the extra low end - one of these used for Mains would normally be off the ground, and set to "Main' position on the EQ.


    You can try setting the EQ to "Monitor" for the floor position, too. It will reduce the low end, but the effect will be more subtle than if it was placed in Monitor position.



    Frequency Range (-10 dB): 46 Hz – 20 kHz (EQ in main position)
    60 Hz – 20 kHz (EQ in monitor position)
    Frequency Response (±3 dB): 76 Hz – 20 kHz (EQ in main position)
    90 Hz – 20 kHz (EQ in monitor position)

    The best way to get into the whole FRFR thing is to use some linear near field studio monitors to get a feeling for the sound. Play your rigs in your own musicial context and dial in the tones as needed. When switching to bigger active FRFR monitors, the sound should stay the same. If it does not, it´s most likely a problem with the active monitors themselves. Sadly a lot of even higher priced active monitors are far from sounding flat. When i started using FRFR i used my old JBL Eons, which always sounded very nice when playing music through them. However, when used with my KPA, they sounded simply terrible. I tweaked the sound with a Behringer DEQ2496, which helped a lot. But in the end i switched to Yamaha DXRs, which made a huge difference.

    My idea is to use the same FRFR-Monitors on stage as for FOH. When I design/tweak my stage-sounds then during soundcheck , it is also valid for the FOH-Speakers. So I would always listen to the same sound as the public does.

    ToneJones,


    how does your cab with a music program? Is it boomy as well?


    Your issue might be due to:

    • the JBL being defective (broken horn\tweeter?);
    • the JBL having its own sound signature you do not like (bass-enforced);
    • the JBL being improperly set (eq, input sensitivity etc. Be sure to properly gain-stage the cab);
    • the room enforcing some freqs your guitar cab doesn't produce.


    You might want to check the above, maybe placing the cab in a different (larger) room and far from walls and, above all, corners.


    And I agree, you can and should have both the worlds, provided that the JBL sounds linear and transparent enough and it's not defective nor wrongly set\placed. Could you try a very good PA in a store? This might be revealing for you :)
    Let us know

    Quote from tylerhb

    The best way to get into the whole FRFR thing is to use some linear near field studio monitors to get a feeling for the sound. Play your rigs in your own musicial context and dial in the tones as needed. When switching to bigger active FRFR monitors, the sound should stay the same. If it does not, it´s most likely a problem with the active monitors themselves. Sadly a lot of even higher priced active monitors are far from sounding flat. When i started using FRFR i used my old JBL Eons, which always sounded very nice when playing music through them. However, when used with my KPA, they sounded simply terrible. I tweaked the sound with a Behringer DEQ2496, which helped a lot. But in the end i switched to Yamaha DXRs, which made a huge difference.


    This. Follow Tills advice and you may get much better results.
    In the end it will go down to the question how neutral the JBL PRX512 really is and how good it is translating a sound that was tweaked on e.g. studio monitors.

    I appreciate the support and suggestions.


    The speaker isn't mine but belongs to the bass player who owns the entire PA. It is used regularly, has sounded fine for sound reinforcement applications and we haven't experienced any issues with it in terms of being defective/broken. I can therefore only surmise it is operating normally.


    I will look into the option of trying something newer as well as some different environments to see if the results improve. I'd be interested in hearing suggestions on some reasonably priced linear near field studio monitors that people have had good experiences with to help dial in tones.


    Thanks again.