Why one shouldn't use a pitch shifter through a stomp switch

    Well, based on my trials, I found that the expression pedal seems to reinitialise, losing reference to where it was. Try this: set up too pitch shifter FX on the Kemper, switch between one and the other. You'll find that the pitch shifter loses its place somewhat erratically, i.e. loses position whenever it feels like. This could be a disaster in a performance situation.


    This would explain the cryptic warning in the manual against doing this kind of thing. In that respect, I wonder if there will be any difference with the Remote on this issue. I really wanted to be able to do this (activate stomps using CC messages), but based on this experience, I think I will shift back to a programme change based approach to creating my performances.

    Quote from Ingolf

    What do you mean by 'losing its place/position'?


    Supposing I set the pitch shifter so that it is 0 somewhere in the middle of the expression pedal sweep. Now when I switch to it from time to time, it might give me accurate positioning most of the time. But every now and then, the Kemper misinterprets the position of the pedal (as decided by the initialisation procedure) and assumes that the position I have set it at is heel position. In order to reset this, I have to correct the pedal by going back to heel position, then sweeping to toe, after which it functions as normal. Basically, the pedal might be in the middle or somewhere else and the Kemper mistakenly assumes it is at an altogether different position.

    Couldn't it be that when you switch back to a stomp you used earlier, it starts at the value it had when you last used it, regardless of the pedal's current position? And that it only starts following the pedal again when the pedal reaches that value? Kind of like the "pick-up" takeover mode for external midi controllers in some DAWs.


    I think this might be intentional, to avoid sudden jumps or something.


    Just as a reference, this is from the Ableton Live manual (so it has nothing to do with the Kemper, it just explains what I mean pretty clearly):


    Quote

    When MIDI controls that send absolute values (such as faders) are used in a bank-switching setup, where they address a different destination parameter with each controller bank, you will need to decide how Live should handle the sudden jumps in values that will occur when moving a control for the first time after switching the bank. Three takeover modes are available:


    None — As soon as the physical control is moved, its new value is sent immediately to its destination parameter, usually resulting in abrupt value changes.

    Pick-Up — Moving the physical control has no effect until it reaches the value of its destination parameter. As soon as they are equal, the destination value tracks the control’s value 1:1. This option can provide smooth value changes, but it can be difficult to estimate exactly where the pick-up will take place.


    Value Scaling — This option ensures smooth value transitions. It compares the physical control’s value to the destination parameter’s value and calculates a smooth convergence of the two as the control is moved. As soon as they are equal, the destination value tracks the control’s value 1:1.

    Quote from Robrecht

    Couldn't it be that when you switch back to a stomp you used earlier, it starts at the value it had when you last used it, regardless of the pedal's current position? And that it only starts following the pedal again when the pedal reaches that value? Kind of like the "pick-up" takeover mode for external midi controllers in some DAWs.


    I think this might be intentional, to avoid sudden jumps or something.


    Unfortunately, I don't think it is intentional, because the behaviour is erratic. Everything might be working fine for several stomps on and off, but then all of a sudden, the pedal loses calibration, defaulting to heel position. It takes a full sweep to recalibrate it.


    I have my whammy set up to go higher going up from mid position of my expression pedal and lower in the reverse direction. So it is annoying for me to suddenly find it has defaulted to heel position. This behaviour does not occur when switching performances, only when switching in and out stomps.


    Quote from paults

    You have two different Pitch Pedal effects in the same rig, are switching them in and out with CC messages, but the pedal is not fully at the heel when you switch the FX in and out?


    Since you have to push a switch anyway, changing rigs might be a better idea, but having the pedal fully at the heel probably still is necessary for consistent results.


    Yes, changing rigs is indeed a better option. This might not be a problem for many users, if you expect the pedal to default to heel when switching in and out a pitch shifter or wah. But you have to still do a full sweep before the pedal works like it's supposed to.


    I'll note that this issue is documented in the manual, where they explicitly state switching in and out FX that use expression pedals is not recommended. This is the reason why, the pedal position gets lost and it needs to be swept through its full range before it works normally.


    I wonder if this behaviour will also be there with the Remote. Can't see how it would not. I wonder if it can be fixed, because ideally, I would like to switch in and out these FX in the interest of performance workflow.

    Quote from paults

    For anything other than experimental music, that is a brave way to have it set up for live use :)


    Opens up a lot of possibilities. For example, I could set the whammy so that I move up 5 semitones at toe or move down five semitones at heel, while staying in standard tuning at mid position. I wish there was a way to calibrate the "zero point", but I don't think the feature would be of much use to most users.

    Quote from ckemper

    The pedal should not change it's position.
    Does this only happen when swapping two effects?
    What is the crypric warning?


    Hi Mr CK, I could do a short demo vid showing this problem. It happens intermittently, the pedal seems to lose its place and revert to heel position.


    As for the cryptic (well, not so cryptic) warning, it's from the section on expression pedals in the manual, which states:
    "Note: we do not support the swapping of pedal functions by switching a Wah effect on and off, as this would cause problems. Besides, you’ll get a better result by selecting one of our dedicated pedal modes that automatically activate the Wah effect as soon as you move the wah pedal."


    I'll note that I'm using my FC-7 in a weird way (never been done before blah blah haha), where I have set it up so that the spring positions the pedal at 0 semitones in the middle and if I push forward to toe it goes up by 12 semitones and if I go down to heel, it goes down 12 semitones.


    PS: Awesome pitch shifter, I'm having a lot of fun trying out new things every day.