Looper is working through MIDI, KPA Team made it available in 3.0.2 Public Beta:)(UPDATED 26.03.2015)

    Quote from Papoos

    Ant feedback from KPA team ???


    I would be surprised if there was any. :)


    Quote from benvigil

    Can you go ahead and post the NRPN numbers?


    Sure!
    UNDO:
    0xB0,0x63,0x7D,0xB0,0x62,0x5D,0xB0,0x06,0x00,0xB0,0x26,0x01
    STOP/ERASE:
    0xB0,0x63,0x7D,0xB0,0x62,0x5E,0xB0,0x06,0x00,0xB0,0x26,0x01
    0xB0,0x63,0x7D,0xB0,0x62,0x5E,0xB0,0x06,0x00,0xB0,0x26,0x00


    Quote from Papoos

    Video please of the looper working....


    I will try to make one, but I don't promise. :)


    Quote from Inthrutheout

    Was 3.0 the brick?


    Looper is working in all recent firmwares private betas, public betas, releases.
    It was blocked in latest 3.0 public beta, after me&Damian posted about searching NRPNs for looper. :)
    Still we use earlier fws. So if anyone wants to try it, you have to use fw <3.0PB.


    Quote from mbenigni

    Well, we can only speculate here, but I'm assuming they've filtered those NRPNs from the MIDI In port, because it seems unlikely the Remote is sending anything other than NRPN over the Cat 5 cable. Why would they have implemented a second protocol they never intended to use?


    Connection to remote is TCP/IP. There is NXP LPC ARM CPU running in Remote.There are 3 ARM cpus in KPA + one DSP. It's a normal TCP/IP stack.
    So yes they are sending NRPNs but in TCP/IP packets, which are decoded in KPA. MIDI in also receives NRPNs. They probably filtered looper NRPNs from MIDI input. :(

    I don't necessarily feel "entitled" to the Looper functionality - ultimately it's up to Kemper. The one thing I will say is this: if the only way to get at the Looper is to buy the Remote, I hope they'll be very responsive in implementing new functionality to make the Remote usable for as many of us as possible. And now I have a segue to beat a dead horse in yet another thread: more Expression Pedal targets, CC transmit on expression pedal movement. :)


    I'm guessing Kemper's motivations in filtering NRPN are two-fold: 1) Yes, to make purchase of the Remote more attractive. 2) To prevent users from shooting themselves in the foot trying to run non-official MIDI implementations, and reporting these incidents (whether to Kemper support, or publicly) as KPA bugs. I can see where they would want to maintain control to keep the feature as bullet/dummy-proof as possible.


    The happy medium here is to reinstate the NRPN functionality in "Artist" mode. That's basically your Wild West, all-bets-are-off, mode. As with a beta firmware, if things blow up there it's on me, and Kemper can just shrug and say, "Can you duplicate the problem in standard mode?"


    This is one of two reasons i bought KPA. The best tube amp sound in digital world available at the moment (it still is :thumbup: ) and that "free new features & upgrades" model.

    Quote from Peto

    UNDO:
    0xB0,0x63,0x7D,0xB0,0x62,0x5D,0xB0,0x06,0x00,0xB0,0x26,0x01
    STOP/ERASE:
    0xB0,0x63,0x7D,0xB0,0x62,0x5E,0xB0,0x06,0x00,0xB0,0x26,0x01
    0xB0,0x63,0x7D,0xB0,0x62,0x5E,0xB0,0x06,0x00,0xB0,0x26,0x00


    Okay so written a different way...


    RECORD: NRPN #16088 / 1
    $B0 $63 $7D (125)
    $B0 $62 $58 (88)
    $B0 $06 $00 (0)
    $B0 $26 $01 (1)


    STOP RECORDING & PLAY: NRPN #16088 / 0
    $B0 $63 $7D (125)
    $B0 $62 $58 (88)
    $B0 $06 $00 (0)
    $B0 $26 $00 (0)


    UNDO: NRPN #16093 / 1
    $B0 $63 $7D (125)
    $B0 $62 $5D (93)
    $B0 $06 $00 (0)
    $B0 $26 $01 (1)


    STOP/ERASE: NRPN #16094 / 1
    $B0 $63 $7D (125)
    $B0 $62 $5E (94)
    $B0 $06 $00 (0)
    $B0 $26 $01 (1)


    STOP/ERASE: NRPN #16094 / 0
    $B0 $63 $7D (125)
    $B0 $62 $5E (94)
    $B0 $06 $00 (0)
    $B0 $26 $00 (0)

    Quote from mbenigni

    I don't necessarily feel "entitled" to the Looper functionality - ultimately it's up to Kemper.

    Neither do we. We did all this search because somebody reported looper-like behavior of KPA in other thread. See link in OP. And we were curious. :)After we found it, we realized it works without Remote too. No delay, glitches or anything like that. We do think that as there is no technical reason to bind Looper to Remote, it could be made available in simpler form for all KPA users as other new features are.



    Quote from mbenigni

    I'm guessing Kemper's motivations in filtering NRPN are two-fold: 1) Yes, to make purchase of the Remote more attractive. 2) To prevent users from shooting themselves in the foot trying to run non-official MIDI implementations, and reporting these incidents (whether to Kemper support, or publicly) as KPA bugs. I can see where they would want to maintain control to keep the feature as bullet/dummy-proof as possible.

    I don't think that 30s looper is selling point of any kind. The selling point of Remote is in it's integration with KPA. You pay for 100% compatibility all of the time. If I needed Remote for live playing I would definitely buy it! Not talking about the simplest programming I have ever seen! These would be the selling points for me if I needed controller.

    You get a midi controllable 30 second stereo looper, with the exact same looping features, when you buy a Strymon Timeline, plus all of the incredible delays, for $449. Add a $100 FCB1010, and you are spending less than for the remote. To me, also, it is the super easy integration that is the main selling point of the Remote. So, I doubt they would lose any Remote sales, because of allowing midi access to their internal looper, by any Kemper owner, and would really be making EVERY Kemper owner super happy! And, I seriously doubt any Remote buyer, would suddenly be upset, because the looper is midi accessible. That would be very smart.

    So what you're telling me is that the looper functionality doesn't require the remote but that Kemper & co have throttled the ability to do that on the new update?


    That's... deplorable, at best. Like really, really shameful and a backhand to customers/the community if this was intentional.


    @ckemper any comments on this one, either?

    Quote from JeffTD

    So what you're telling me is that the looper functionality doesn't require the remote but that Kemper & co have throttled the ability to do that on the new update?


    That's correct, but the looper functionality was entirely undocumented and was probably never intended to be found.

    thanks for the information around this. Got the basic looping functions working through NRPN messages.
    Record
    Stop Record/Play
    Erase
    Undo
    Stop


    Did notice some interesting things:
    1. You can switch to a totally different rig with the loop playing and not impact the looping tone. So lay down a clean pad or repeating phrase, and play distorted lead over the top of it. Nice.
    2. When you stop a loop, you can't get it to play again or re-trigger without recording it again.
    3. The looping phrase maintains whatever effects you used to record it. So if you record the loop with a heavy delay, it will maintain that setting and send even when you switch to another rig.


    Interesting stuff.......


    thanks again

    Quote from Michael_dk

    Gotcha - the "ALL" part of "all functions" :)


    (so only all the advertised functions are available still... Sorry, can't help myself, don't take me too seriously :-))


    Well, the looper isn't exactly rocket science if it could be accessed through midi in earlier firmware.


    In that sense, a lot of users could really benefit if Kemper decided to make these features non-exclusive. Now that they've already termed it "exclusive" to the Remote, I doubt they will be able to do so.


    This still remains an interesting thread nevertheless because of the hard work that went into disproving some of the earlier claims we've heard that midi would not be able to control the looper properly. It seems other considerations were more at play in that regard.

    I think if it was accessible it's obviously easy enough to make it so again. Let's face it Kemper have been very good at listening to their customers so guess if enough people ask there is a strong chance it could enabled in a future firmware. I guess as long as it doesn't get 'nasty' with people feeling entitled or demanding the looper we may, at some point be in luck. IMHO

    Quote from smfelton

    I think if it was accessible it's obviously easy enough to make it so again. Let's face it Kemper have been very good at listening to their customers so guess if enough people ask there is a strong chance it could enabled in a future firmware. I guess as long as it doesn't get 'nasty' with people feeling entitled or demanding the looper we may, at some point be in luck. IMHO


    Agreed.


    But even so, it may be that the looper is part of the selling point of the remote, and without it the remote may not be viable at all for the company, which would be a shame. Maybe they could have sidestepped the apparent discontent by building the looper into the remote, but that would have definitely added to the price of the remote, which again might have impacted the business case of the remote. These are the things I am thinking about regarding all this. Maybe they'll open the feature for midi in the future, but (as someone already pointed out) that might leave them in a bind regarding the people who have already purchased the remote.


    It's a pickle :)