Direct Profiling with 2.8 / 3.0 / 3.0.1 ..... I reckon my " Returns " may be faulty ... ???

    Hi all


    I reckon its possible that my Kemper's Return Inputs [ Canon and 1/4 ] may be faulty (?) .... to explain.


    In trying to do a Direct Profile I have used 2.8 Beta, 3.0 - both versions and 3.0.1 Public Beta.


    As I have reported in other threads, the resulting DI profiles are terribly distorted, muddy, unuseable etc...


    So .... as a bit of a test I thought I would do a simple PRE-AMP-OUT Profile of CH1 and CH2 on my DC30 clone.


    Surely (?) that would work given that PRE-AMP-OUT levels are far-from-hot and best of all, no DI is needed .... easy right ?


    Anyway, set it all up - all levels were fine - as always nice solid green and no amber or red on both Input and Output.


    Did the normal routine - all went well ..... until ...... the following.


    As soon as I go to press the " Refine " and/or skip Refining and go straight to " Save " the profile the Reference profile I am doing goes ultra-hot / ultra-muddy / (bad) distorted etc...... and I haven't touched anything to make this happen.


    I exit, pull it up in Browser and its the same ie: " very not good "

    => this cant possibly be normal / proper behaviour ?


    => anyone else had this ?


    => any advice / suggestions I could try ?


    => wondering if there is a way to test them - or- does the Kemper have any built-in diagnostics I couhd run ?


    All ideas would be grealty appreciated.


    Ben

    I had the same results trying to create direct profiles from various amps (JVM, Cobra, 333XL) with Behringer GI100 ULTRA-G, but most of the times i got the message "amp too noisy" and if i pushed 1 or 2 pads i got "amp too silent"! Rarely the profiling procedure finished but the resluts were as you described! Even the clean sounds came out distorted! And i am pretty sure that i had it all setup up correctly, i triple checked everything!

    Thanks. Good to know I'm not going silly :)


    I didn't mention it above but I too was also getting the " amp too noisy " / " amp too quiet " kind of messages .... even when Direct profiling pure ultra clean sounds from CH1 of the amp - either via a Ultra 100 [ Silver ] at -40db or -20db -or- when using the pre-amp out for the same sound, it resulted in distorted, terrible sounding profiles.


    As well as also " triple " checking everything, I actually changed all the leads / cabling and used a friend Ultra G 100 [ Red ] DI ..... same thing.


    I know there are some people here doing and getting awesome Direct results ....... but I'm really starting to get the feeling that -at least at the moment- Direct profiling is very hit-and-miss.


    Would be great if some 3.0 Direct Profiling " success stories " chimed in.


    Am really starting to think that this is a Kemper / FW issue as I really do think I have exhausted all other non-Kemper and non-FW options.


    Ben

    Hi Sam and Damian


    Unfortunately, its not the Behringer DI's .... wish it was as that would be an easy fix ........ when I did the PRE-AMP-OUT profiling, no DI of any brand or type was used -a DI is not needed for PRE-AMP profiling- just straight lead from EFX-Send to KPA ...... yet the exact same problem occurs.

    Edited once, last by benifin ().

    Ah, misread that bit!
    TRS? What is the output on the preamp of the DC30 clone? It would unusual to have a balanced or single-jack stereo output on a guitar preamp output. Have you tried with a regular TS?


    Cheers,
    Sam

    Hey Sam


    The DZ30 [ DC30 clone by Ceriatone ] has a 2 separate-dedicated EFX Loops - one solely for CH1 and one solely for CH2.


    They each take and use a standard TRS lead - not sure of the output of the loops but I have run a simple Boss Delay Pedal and Boss Chorus in them as well as standard rack efx gear - never an issue .... given its an EFX Send signal, its only going to be in the mV [ milli-volt ] range so there's no way that's going to " slam-and-freak-out " the Kemper Canon or 1/4 Returns.


    Just for " fun " .... I was getting a bit fed-up at this stage ...... I even took a guitar lead and went " totally old-school-retro " and plugged it in to the loop and pulled it half-out until it "engaged" ..... same problem ....


    Thanks,
    Ben

    Ah, so the send and return are on the same TRS output/input (one being tip, the other ring, I assume?)? How are you then splitting the signal to the Kemper (cable type, jack or XLR etc.)?


    Cheers,
    Sam

    Just found this is the manual for the DZ30 :

    When I plug effects into the effects loop, my tone noticeably changes. Sometimes the effects don’t sound quite right. What’s the deal?
    - Generally, what you’re hearing is a significant mismatching of impedances, and/or an overloading of the effect unit itself. Most rack-mount units have different input impedance than pedals, and thus can sometimes function fine without a buffer before them. In addition, some of these rack-mounted effects can pad the volume they receive, preventing it from overloading. Pedals do not have proper input impedance or padding ability, and therefore do not play nicely.
    - For best results, an effects loop interface like the C-lator or Klein-ulator could be used with the Dizzy 30 amplifier. These units prevent impedance mismatching, as well as provide the ability to pad down the volume sent to the effects units hence preventing any overloading.


    Maybe there's an impedance mismatch?


    Cheers,
    Sam

    Hi all.


    Many thanks. I will re-do the preamp profiles with my DI and report back


    Still though, this possible impedance missmatch doesn't explain the (same) issue ocuring with post power amp pre speaker DI profiles (?)


    Ben