Remote the looper with standard midi controller

    Hi Forum,
    i know, it has been discussed but not solved and i don't really understand the techique behind the theme. Is it possible to control the looper without the Kemper remote?
    Is it still impossible via midi (especially the FCB1010). Does it only work with the NRPN protocol? Only via network cable? Any tricks about it? Does the UNO4Kemper
    the job?
    If not, any ideas about some DIY-hardware?
    Thank you all.
    Greets Harald

    Hi.


    Best DIY is build midicontroler with ARDUINO.



    Now I made one.You can find on web.There are many project.


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    Here is usb out, but you can build even thru 5 din connector.


    Mirek

    Thanks Mirek,
    but if i got it right the looper can't be used with the midi-commands. But may be the arduino can produce NRPN?
    So i need information how to feed the Cat-5 input of the Kemper without damaging. Is there anywhere
    a NRPN-implementation-chart of the Kemper?
    Is it the right idea:
    Some switches to the arduino -> generate the NRPN-commands -> Cat-5 output -> Kemper's Cat-5 input?

    You don't need to use the CAT-5 input in order for this to work. (I speculated at one point that Kemper had made this a restriction, but if that was true it has since been lifted. The looper events can be triggered through the 5-pin MIDI in.)


    The events are triggered by MIDI NRPN, but these can be sent as a sequence of 4 CC's. If the FCB can do that, you're all set. Otherwise, you need a device or computer to translate the FCB's output (e.g. CC or PC) to the corresponding sequence of 4 CC's. I use a MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus. If you can get ahold of one of these, the attached file will program it for this purpose. (Unfortunately the Event Processor isn't cheap.)


    Lots more info (though much of it is now out of date) here: http://www.kemper-amps.com/for…e-in-3-0-2-Public-Beta-U/?

    Ah OK. So i have to check if my FCB1010 can send several CC's with one touch, right?
    Or may be with an UNO4KEMPER Chip? Or another standard footswitch that can do this.
    And if not i have to build an arduino project that sends a packages with several CC's over
    a 5-pin socket. Is that the way i have to go?


    Comparing the effort and the costs it may be better to buy a Boss RC Looper...


    I just found out that the FBC1010 (even with the UNO Chip) can send just 2 CC at a time.
    So i think it will be a Boss Looper. Thank you all.

    Edited once, last by hal2000 ().

    Quote

    Ah OK. So i have to check if my FCB1010 can send several CC's with one touch, right?


    That's it in a nutshell. And yes, I do believe the FCB is more flexible/ programmable if you swap out the stock chip for an Uno chip. There are probably other members who can shed more light on that than I can.


    A Boss RC-looper will offer a lot more functionality (much more storage, for starters) than the KPA looper. The main benefit of the KPA looper is it's integrated in the hardware you're already using; you won't need to run additional cables to and from for audio, etc.

    With FCB (even when Uno is inside) you are restricted to only 2 CCs. As I have found out, you need state machine to replicate Remote looper behavior with NRPNs. State machine is implemented and ready to use with MIDI Jazz plugin for Internet browser. Link is in the original MIDI looper thread in the first post by Damian. The best way to get looper working with FCB is to use external converter from single CC to NRPN including the state machine. This can be done with Jazz plugin or if you need standalone solution the best way would be to use Arduino (or other uController) as converter. IIRC Mirek went this way with success.



    I have Microdesignum Grande and is able send up to 8 CC . :thumbup:

    Quote

    As I have found out, you need state machine to replicate Remote looper behavior with NRPNs.


    I'm curious, what problems did you run into without "state machine". (I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "state machine", actually.) I'm just blindly sending the groups of 4 CC's per button press, and this seems to be working fine for record/ play/ undo/ clear. (Tested OK with reverse and 1/2 speed too, but I didn't really need those.) Am I missing something that's going to cause trouble later?


    Edit: did you need to account for state in order to control LED feedback, for instance? I'm just ignoring LED's in my implementation.

    Quote from mbenigni

    As I have found out, you need state machine to replicate Remote looper behavior with NRPNs.


    I'm curious, what problems did you run into without "state machine". (I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "state machine", actually.) I'm just blindly sending the groups of 4 CC's per button press, and this seems to be working fine for record/ play/ undo/ clear. (Tested OK with reverse and 1/2 speed too, but I didn't really need those.) Am I missing something that's going to cause trouble later?


    Edit: did you need to account for state in order to control LED feedback, for instance? I'm just ignoring LED's in my implementation.


    Not related to leds at all. To mimic Remote looper as close as possible (as described in Remote manual) I had to implement state machine, which remembers state of looper and reacts to buttons correctly. Eg: Remote has one button for Record & Play function. To issue correct NRPN sequence, you have to know the state of looper. If looper is empty you must issue RECORD. If the looper is in STOP state, you have to issue Play NRPN. To issue Reverse command you have to send different sequence of NRPNs depending on current state (PLAY or STOPPED) etc...
    If your implementation is working for you, you don't need that. If you want to mimic Remote behavior you probably will. :)

    I've been able to successfully implement the NRPN's for looper control in a 8 button prototype footswitch using an Arduino Uno. 6 buttons are for the looper, and I added Delay on/off and Tap. It was very simple using the information from this thread:


    How to get the looper working with any Midi Device


    ...and this arduino midi library:


    https://github.com/FortySevenEffects/arduino_midi_library


    I also added a midi in connector and implemented a midi merge so that the looper pedal can be placed in series with the midi out of a FCB1010/Uno4Kemper, and the looper functions will be added to the 1010 control. The prototype works extremely well so far with its board switches and FCB1010, but I need to install it in a floor pedal.


    The code is still incomplete but I can place it on dropbox for download if anyone is interested. It wasn't difficult and would be an easy build if anyone has a few electronics chops. I'm not that great a coder, but found it surprising how easy it was to do.

    Edited 2 times, last by MKB ().

    What do you mean when you say the looper functions are added to 1010 control ? Did you get it into a pedal ? How much did you spend ? I like the idea of having the looper available via a addon to fcb rather than a seperate looper pedal via the loop and two ts cables.. Of course one midi controller to do anything and everything I want would be great but I'm not rich...

    Quote from tntent

    What do you mean when you say the looper functions are added to 1010 control ? Did you get it into a pedal ? How much did you spend ? I like the idea of having the looper available via a addon to fcb rather than a seperate looper pedal via the loop and two ts cables.. Of course one midi controller to do anything and everything I want would be great but I'm not rich...


    The pedal is organized like this: FCB1010 Midi Out > Looper pedal midi in, looper pedal midi out > Kemper midi in, Kemper midi out > FCB1010 midi in. The looper pedal passes the FCB1010 commands through from In to Out and merges in the looper commands the pedal generates. The FCB1010 works exactly as it did before the looper pedal was added.


    Right now the pedal is still in prototype form and hasn't been placed in an enclosure. The hardware so far is of course an Arduino Uno, and a Seeed Prototype shield with the midi IO and prototype pushbuttons added. The pushbuttons will be replaced with the footswitches when it gets placed in an enclosure. Unfortunately there is not a PCB that contains all of the electronics to interface the outside world to the Uno, it takes a bit of building to make a proper shield. Maybe the closest board is the Sparkfun midi shield, but you will need to solder the wires from the switches directly to the connector pins on the shield going to the Uno.


    As far as costs go, maybe it will cost $125 or so US (rough estimate), with most of that going to the enclosure. This cost could be cut a lot if the builder is clever with sourcing parts. I haven't gotten far enough into the project to have a clear idea what it will cost. Hopefully in the next few weeks I will have more to report.