Dear God - I hope it gets better than this!

Following this thread quite some time now I'd like to point out something which has allready been mentioned.
Did you compare the sound of the Kemper with your beloved tube amp being miked up? That's what I started some time ago before I finally got my Kemper. That's sort of the benchmark to me. I spend a lot of time listening to Musik through my Studio Monitors and playing along - Withe the "miked" up sound of my Kemper (and sometimes of my tubeAmp+pedalboard). Sometimes I add obe of my guitar cabinets or a pair of DXR10s. Volume level is very low (most of the time).
And another thing:
If you're using the guitar cabinet I qould estimate that it would not point to your ears directly but mor to your knees. That makes a huge difference.

Good luck on your yourney!

Quote from DonPetersen

have you tried listening to a CD you know and love over the monitor?
how did this compare to your usual listening experience?

Did you try this?

+1
It's very important to learn how the monitors/headphones sound by listening to reference songs you like and know very well.
Having good neutral monitors/headphones will require less eq tweaking. When having less neutral monitors you must know their weakness and how to correct it with eq. Our ears will get used to any sound we hear so it's easy to get fooled when not having reference music.
Using reference music is also very important when mixing music or for troubleshooting (do my speakers have too much/less bass, mid, treble or does the speaker sound broken?). Also when dialing in guitar tones. To get good tone ears we need training, so listen and compare your guitar tone directly with guitar music you like. This will save days of work when micing and dialing in amps.

OhG I think you should try profiling your own amp you like since that's what the kemper can do.
You can do a direct amp profile without mics and play the kemper through a guitar cab, comparing against the real amp.
Or profile with a mic for your monitor cab. An sm57 will do great.
I prefer using both options (guitar cab and monitor) to have most flexibilty and sound options depending on what I want.

I agree with HappyKemper, once you profile your own amp you'll know why the Kemper is such a great invention. Try it!

Quote from Jose7822

I agree with HappyKemper, once you profile your own amp you'll know why the Kemper is such a great invention. Try it!

Absolutely! My own "a-ha!" moment came when I profiled my Mark V.

Quote from Jose7822

But at least it gives you a consistent sound, which is not the case when using amps. One night the amp sounds killer, and the next it sounds like shit. That has to do with various variables, like how loud the amp is, how well it has been miced, how well it was EQed, the room temperature, etc. With the Kemper, what you hear is what the audience gets. This is not so with a real amp. In the latter case, what you hear is the amp in the room sound and the audience hears the miced up amp. That's totally different.

Caveat: I am a gigging amateur musician in a local act trying to go regional, and have yet to be able to work with in-ear monitors or with a band using all digital sound reinforcement.

So, with that said, and respect to Jose, I find the statement of 'consistent sound' a bit of a red herring, at least in terms of live playing. From my experience, just because the Kemper gives you the possibility of 'consistent sound' doesn't mean you won't find yourself having to adjust your tone or use a different profile in different circumstances. Room-related factors, adjustments made by your band mates still using tube amps, noise cancelling frequencies, stage wash, etc, etc, etc, can all affect your perception of the tone coming from any given profile. I can take a profile, tweak it at home and it sounds perfect, use it a practice and it requires adjustment, try to use it at a venue and it sounds like crap (or gold), and then go back to that same venue two months later using the same exact profile and have to tweak it in a different manner depending upon what is going on that night.

There is always going to be variables you cannot account for and have to adjust to. The Kemper is a great tool, but its not a silver bullet you will be able to just 'set it and forget it'. At least not at the level of gigging I am doing.

This is certainly true. OTOH, an amp's sound depending on the quality of mains supply is something we all have experienced. It's certainly one variable less.
Where the amps are usually mic'ed, the Profiler allows to get rid of this further variable also...

Since these things are additive, the possible presence of other disturbing factors certainly doesn't negate the advantages.

Quote from flyingheelhook

Caveat: I am a gigging amateur musician in a local act trying to go regional, and have yet to be able to work with in-ear monitors or with a band using all digital sound reinforcement.

So, with that said, and respect to Jose, I find the statement of 'consistent sound' a bit of a red herring, at least in terms of live playing. From my experience, just because the Kemper gives you the possibility of 'consistent sound' doesn't mean you won't find yourself having to adjust your tone or use a different profile in different circumstances. Room-related factors, adjustments made by your band mates still using tube amps, noise cancelling frequencies, stage wash, etc, etc, etc, can all affect your perception of the tone coming from any given profile. I can take a profile, tweak it at home and it sounds perfect, use it a practice and it requires adjustment, try to use it at a venue and it sounds like crap (or gold), and then go back to that same venue two months later using the same exact profile and have to tweak it in a different manner depending upon what is going on that night.

There is always going to be variables you cannot account for and have to adjust to. The Kemper is a great tool, but its not a silver bullet you will be able to just 'set it and forget it'. At least not at the level of gigging I am doing.

I totally agree!

Perhaps I should've phrased it more carefully. Obviously, your perception of tone will change due to the various circumstances you just mentioned, but they affect all types of gear (including PA systems, tube amps, acoustic instruments, etc), not just modeling/profiling gear. We ALL have to deal with those problems in live situations.

The point that I was getting across is that, at least with modeling/profiling gear, you get a consistent sound in the sense that you don't have to worry about loud tube amps in order to get a good tone, or worry about tubes wearing out and affecting your sound, or the mic placement, etc. In this sense modeling/profiling units offer a consistent sound. That's my point :-).

Quote from Jose7822

The point that I was getting across is that, at least with modeling/profiling gear, you get a consistent sound in the sense that you don't have to worry about loud tube amps in order to get a good tone, or worry about tubes wearing out and affecting your sound, or the mic placement, etc. In this sense modeling/profiling units offer a consistent sound.

Thats for me a great advantage to have a constant haptic with one equipment.
My basic claims to buy the Kemper was: only one Amp with less weight and maximal 2 Guitar with at least the same sound quality as with my tube amps, was really exceeded.
I enjoy the sounds and the diversity of tones now with my Kemper and 1 guitar in 3 Bands.

Quote from flyingheelhook

Caveat: I am a gigging amateur musician in a local act trying to go regional, and have yet to be able to work with in-ear monitors or with a band using all digital sound reinforcement.

So, with that said, and respect to Jose, I find the statement of 'consistent sound' a bit of a red herring, at least in terms of live playing. From my experience, just because the Kemper gives you the possibility of 'consistent sound' doesn't mean you won't find yourself having to adjust your tone or use a different profile in different circumstances. Room-related factors, adjustments made by your band mates still using tube amps, noise cancelling frequencies, stage wash, etc, etc, etc, can all affect your perception of the tone coming from any given profile. I can take a profile, tweak it at home and it sounds perfect, use it a practice and it requires adjustment, try to use it at a venue and it sounds like crap (or gold), and then go back to that same venue two months later using the same exact profile and have to tweak it in a different manner depending upon what is going on that night.

There is always going to be variables you cannot account for and have to adjust to. The Kemper is a great tool, but its not a silver bullet you will be able to just 'set it and forget it'. At least not at the level of gigging I am doing.

These things are taken care of by the FOH guy.
If the soundguy knows you and knows what you give him he can work with it. What you hear onstage is a different thing and doesn't represent what the audience will hear.
Always keep that in mind.

Quote from andygeedot

These things are taken care of by the FOH guy.
If the soundguy knows you and knows what you give him he can work with it. What you hear onstage is a different thing and doesn't represent what the audience will hear.
Always keep that in mind.

I am not really sure what you are trying to say and how it relates to what Jose and i were discussing? Of course the soundman is attempting to adjust for all of the various variables that change from night to night and mixing for the audience but he is also responsible for mixing for the band and the various monitors so that everyone on the stage gets the mix they need. And of course those mixes are separate and what any individual band member hears is going to be intrinsically different for both the various members of the band as well as the for the audience. How does what you said relate to our discussion on consistent sound from the Kemper?

The sound that gets out from Kemper to the FOH is the same, no matter in which room it is located.
So you have not to worry about cabs/mics which are affected by the room.

Thats the advantage every keyboard player ever had - straight plug&play and minimal effort.

And if you have always the same soundguy, than he knows what he gets from you and can work with it ---> minimal soundcheck effort --> short time (which is often a problem when you play festivals for exemple)