#2 EQ: Pre - Post - Both

  • The EQ is the most important part of any guitar amp.


    Why?


    For most other instruments is it the goal of an amp to make the signal of the instrument 'just louder'.
    For an electric guitar almost no one is keen of this.
    Check it out - by using your (linear) stereo system and connect your e-guitar directly to it - or switch off amp, eq and cab blocks in the KPA.


    If we use a clean guitar sound - then it makes not a big difference were to place the EQ.


    E.g. some tube amps work like this:


    input --- pre amp --- EQ --- power amp


    others like this:


    input --- EQ --- pre amp --- power amp


    if you change the EQ settings - it makes not a big difference where it is places - before (pre) the preamp or after (post) the pre amp.


    In reality does the pre amp consist of more then one amplifier stage - each preamp tube consist of two amp stages - there are preamp stages in the input section and there are even some 'pre amp tube' in the power stage.


    e.g.


    Type 1)
    input --- preamp stage1 --- EQ --- preamp stage2 --- power amp
    This is very similar to many fender type amps.


    Type 2)
    compare this to a Marshall type amp:
    input --- preamp stage1 --- preamp stage2 --- EQ --- power amp.


    Amps of type 1) do not distort this easy (nobody wanted an amp to distort when the amps were first produced in the 50').
    The reason for less distortion is that the EQ reduces a lot of the signal amplified by preamp stage 1 - so preamp stage2 will distort not this easy.


    Type 2) amps distort easier because the output of stage1 will drive stage2 with much more strength.



    Some modern amps look like this:


    input --- stage1 - stage2 - stage3 - stage4 --- EQ --- power amp


    Off course these amps can create much more distortion then the old ones with less gain stages.



    What will this all tell us if we use the KPA and profiles?
    For most modern amps (EQ at the end of the pre amp stages) it is enough to profile the amp with neutral setting of the amp tone stack - since we can always place a KPA EQ after the KPA amp stage to adjust the sound.


    For amps of the 'old' (type 1) style will the tone stack settings (use during the profile process) not only change the overall sound - but the kind of distortion the amp produces.


    In general:
    If the amps EQ is at front of the preamp - it changed the kind of distortion the amp produces.
    If the amps EQ is at the end of the preamp - it changes 'just' the overall sound (more bass, less treble or whatever).


    Some amps have both types of EQ e.g. most Mesa Boogie Mark amps - incl. the latest one the JP 2C


    These amps work like this:
    input --- EQ1 - preamp stages --- EQ2 --- power amp


    EQ1 are the tone controls bass, mid , treble = Pre EQ
    EQ2 is the Mesa 5 band graphical EQ = Post EQ


    So EQ1 will be used to shape the tone to get the desired kind of distortion - while EQ2 will be used to change the overall sound.


    So to get good profiles of such a kind of amp it's important to have a variety of settings of EQ1 and the EQ2 is not this important - since an EQ block after the KPA amp stage can simulate this EQ2 very good.


    I hope this helps some of you - and you start to use more and more the KPA EQ knobs and EQ blocks before and after the AMP block.


    Enjoy!

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    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

    Edited once, last by Armin ().

  • Thank you, Armin!


    In an ideal world, I'd love to be able to have the Stack EQ (knobs) both pre and post, with the ability to be able to choose to switch either one or both on or off via soft keys in the main Rig window or the EQ's Stack window, on a per-Rig basis, obviously.


    Given that we've apparently still got CPU cycles to spare and that the Stack's 4 bands shouldn't chew up too much of 'em, I'd like to think that this is eminently doable. I really, really want this; I just don't jive with the slot EQs 'cause I like to just dive in by grabbin' and twistin'.

  • We can change the KPA EQ position (per rig) to pre or post.


    Use pre for more Fender style amps
    and post for more Marshall style amps


    If you like to change your sound like in the Mesa Mark series - set the KPA EQ to pre and place an EQ after the amp block (e.g. slot X).


    btw. the Mark's 6 band EQ should be set up like this:
    80Hz 240Hz 750Hz 22200Hz 6600Hz 8000Hz


    so we need two 4band KPA EQ's to exactly replicate this.

    (All trademarks are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with soundside.de)


    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

  • The EQ is the most important part of any guitar amp.

    ...AND any mixing console or DAW. :D


    The EQ (post everything) is the way to mix loudness appearance levels in the "second dimension" to create good sounding songs.Dont beat me up, but in example: leave some room in the mids for the vocals (cut), and use less bass in the guitar amp to let the real bass player and bass drum shine over there. The guitar soloed might sound worse, but in the song context that will create more transparency. For some songs it might be better not to understand a word of the vocals or have transparency, though. Then ignore it! :D Simply: dont be too selfish for your sound.

    Ne travaillez jamais.

    Edited 2 times, last by SpinnerDeluxe ().

  • We can change the KPA EQ position (per rig) to pre or post.


    Use pre for more Fender style amps
    and post for more Marshall style amps

    Yeah, I know, Armin, but as I said:


    In an ideal world, I'd love to be able to have the Stack EQ (knobs) both pre and post, with the ability to be able to choose to switch either one or both on or off via soft keys in the main Rig window or the EQ's Stack window, on a per-Rig basis, obviously.

    That's just my ideal world, mate.


    If you like to change your sound like in the Mesa Mark series - set the KPA EQ to pre and place an EQ after the amp block (e.g. slot X).

    Yeah, but as I suggested, I'd like to have the stack both pre and post - easier to grab a knob and twiddle, and I'd want it for all sorts of Profiles, not just Mesa ones or to have a Mesa-style post EQ. I love the way the stack EQ carves things out musically... and practically too.


    Maybe it's just me; as I said, that'd be in my ideal world, brother. ;)


    Thank you again for explaining the configurations of preamps and EQ's, mate!